04-25-2005, 09:25 PM | #101 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Nurv,
I AM IMPRESSED!!!! Forestry is doing you good, girl! Excellent exposition above!
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
04-26-2005, 06:44 AM | #102 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Thanks Inked!
Quote:
You might also enjoy this thread: Blatant LotR Copy-Cats. (I bumped it over in the Middle-earth forum). Spock has a point (though this excercise can still be useful) - you can probably find similarities between every fantasy book and every other fantasy book. The question is, are they relevant? In the case of LotR versus Harry Potter, I would say no, at least from a copycat standpoint.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
04-27-2005, 01:52 PM | #103 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In a spaceship, floating in your puny planet's atmosphere, awaiting orders to invade
Posts: 292
|
Quote:
__________________
The axes hewed Forlong as he fought alone and unhorsed; and both Duilin of Morthond and his brother were trampled to death when they assailed the mumakil,leading their bowmen close to shoot at the eyes of the monsters. Neither Hirluin the fair would return to Pinnath Gelin, nor Grimbold to Grimslade, nor Halbarad to the northlands,dour-handed Ranger. Those that would not return home, page830-831, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, The Return of the King |
|
04-27-2005, 05:05 PM | #104 |
Enting
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: on the moon but i do vist earth now and again
Posts: 57
|
harry potter
i think that nevil will destroy voldimort as to use the avrercadavera crse you need to have real emotion behind it nevil has had to wacth his parents liv in a mad state wherase harry can hardly remember his parents . i think that dumbuledore could turn evil and die in the last book
|
04-28-2005, 07:23 AM | #105 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
..wow, I hope you're wrong about D.
|
04-29-2005, 12:48 PM | #106 |
Enting
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: on the moon but i do vist earth now and again
Posts: 57
|
y?
it would be a great story line!
|
04-29-2005, 12:54 PM | #107 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
I'm really fond of the character and his way of handling difficult times at Hogwarts. I think he's an excellent example to the students also and has more power than he reveals.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-30-2005, 03:50 AM | #108 |
Enting
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: on the moon but i do vist earth now and again
Posts: 57
|
well.......
he is all of that but in the goblet of fire....... ( 'he said th protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it too and he was right he could touch me withought herting himself, he touched my face.' for a fleting second, Harry thought he saw a gleam of triumph in dumbledore's eye's.) dosent this segest that he mmay be tryamfont in voldimots sucsess?!?
|
04-30-2005, 09:41 AM | #109 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
I didn't read that part as Dumbledore feeling triumphant about Voldemort's success at all! Personally I think you're reading into it a little too much, but to each her own.
Quote:
I mean... his reason for not telling him about the Prophecy was because Harry already had enough to deal with. Well, I think Harry pretty much understood that it's kill or be killed with him and Voldemort. Of course they can't both remain alive in the same world forever - Voldemort tries one time per year to murder him! Harry would be much better served armed with all the knowledge possible. Voldemort has it, why not even the playing field? Besides, Harry has already dealt with so much crap that he could probably handle anything Dumbledore could throw at him. My other issue with Dumbledore is the amount of unfairness he allows in the school. True, it's possible he's more occupied with keeping all his students from getting killed, so I'll cut him some slack here. But why is Snape allowed to be completely biased, and abuse Neville at every turn? This is intolerable in a teacher. Think of all the future Potions researchers/experts/specialists/etc. that have been turned away by non-Slytherins who can't help but loathe his class. When he deigns to teach non-Slytherins, he certainly seems like an extremely knowledgeable and capable teacher. This is probably why he isn't allowed to teach the highly important subject of Defence against the Dark Arts, but then again, he really picked winners for that class (barring Lupin, who was awesome). I mean... Gilderoy Lockhart? Not one other person anywhere would take the job? I can accept that, but even Snape would have been a better teacher than him. At least Snape knows what he's doing. Also, just because professor Binns continues to exist is not a good reason to keep him employed as the History teacher. Lille Vän, my houseplant, would do a better job. Seriously. At least people wouldn't associate history with stupefying boredom, and might do some research on their own - as everyone did on the Chamber of Secrets. Hogwarts students do seem to make themselves familiar with the library other times too. Well that's my whole Dumbledore rant. I think he's awesome, a great leader and wizard, and a pretty good headmaster too. But he lets some things slide that I personally would not accept. His character is made that much more interesting by (what I perceive to be) these flaws.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Nurvingiel : 04-30-2005 at 09:44 AM. |
|||
04-30-2005, 10:59 AM | #110 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Well thought out reasoning. IMO D protected H by not giving him all the information too early in his apprenticeship because he couldn't utilize all his powers ...he hadn't been schooled in them enough.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-30-2005, 11:17 AM | #111 |
Enting
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: on the moon but i do vist earth now and again
Posts: 57
|
ye
mabey your right about reading to much into it but i do think that it might meen sumthing . and dumboldore is a fab carrictor but he did anoy me when he told harry everything in 1 chapter
|
04-30-2005, 05:38 PM | #112 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
Quote:
I can't really understand why Rowling had a prophecy in her books. Prophecies just ruin books IMO... and make Harry Potter more like others. I don't know.. I just really don't like it. Can't see how it made the book better anyway.. |
|
05-01-2005, 03:11 AM | #113 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
Perhaps it's writers insights and though patterns that determines these things. These type of books, IMO, are not for debate, nor critical deconstruction. They simply are for enjoyment and to pique your curiosity.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-01-2005, 03:18 AM | #114 |
Enting
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: on the moon but i do vist earth now and again
Posts: 57
|
i think your right you read this book for enjoyment not to question why its the way it is put together
|
05-03-2005, 07:56 PM | #115 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 256
|
Quote:
__________________
Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland |
|
05-04-2005, 03:05 AM | #116 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
|
Quote:
|
|
05-04-2005, 12:15 PM | #117 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
RtB,
But isn't this prophecy motif quite ancient in literature? JK Rowling is merely using a specific motif to engage the reader in seriously consideration of the personages of the story whe is writing. Certainly JRRT and CSL use this type of material, as well the ancients in Greece, Rome, and Germanic literatures. Do you object to it in general or specifically how it is employed by Rowling? Hers, I admit, is more Delphic than perhaps either author I have mentioned.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-04-2005, 01:13 PM | #118 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
I think what Radagast is saying is that the prophecy in HP doesn't add anything to the book, and I agree with him. The prophecy didn't reveal anything Harry or the reader hadn't already guessed - Harry has to kill Voldemort. Prophecies in literature work best as foreshadowing (e.g. Macbeth) or as a statement of a fate which seems shocking and alien to the reader's expectations (e.g. Oedipus). Those are the only ways they can move the plot forward. The HP prophecy is simply expository backstory.
Quote:
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
|
05-04-2005, 01:50 PM | #119 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
There's no such thing as a book which is not for critical deconstruction [/QUOTE]
Only for deconstructionalists.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
05-04-2005, 03:24 PM | #120 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Quote:
Oh, really! Then you assume that the prophecy intends only Harry? That is the mistake (?) Voldemort made, too. Except that Voldie actualized it by his choice of whom it referred to, didn't he (or did he?)? Recall that Voldemort's spy did not get the whole prophecy. And that Voldemort was himself so eager to get it all that the entire OOTP happened. For further evaluation, we have JK Rowling's comments (credit to Quick Quotes): 1. J.K.Rowling Official Site - Harry Potter and more ••• ...The prophecy Harry hears in Dumbledore's office suggests to me that both he and Voldemort will have to die, is that true? Both Madam Trelawney and I... ...Both Madam Trelawney and I worded the prophecy extremely carefully and that is all I have to say on the subject! ©2005 J.K. Rowling. All Rights Reser... 63% Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:28:13 GMT http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=23 2. J.K.Rowling Official Site - Harry Potter and more ••• ...parents. I can’t say too much about this because it touches too closely on the prophecy and how many people knew about it, but the Lestranges were not i... 62% Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:29:39 GMT http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/ru...view.cfm?id=25 3. Quick Quotes Quill: Interviews with J.K.Rowling, 2004 •• JK Rowling's World Book Day Chat, March 4, 2004 JK Rowling says: Hi everyone, I'm here LIVE and ready to answer your questions!... ...starlinguk: Do you believe in prophecies in real life? JK Rowling replies -> No, I don't. And even in the wizarding world, as McGonagall explains in... ...JK Rowling replies -> Harry will tell his nearest and dearest about the prophecy when he's ready. He needs time to digest the news himself first.... 51% Mon, 03 Jan 2005 06:30:39 GMT http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/art...4/0304-wbd.htm Plus, when does the prophecy become active in regard to the action? It is a miniature prequel if you will. It is primarily Delphic in construction, it has many potential interpretations - corpus throughout. So, the motif is a dominant one in regard to plot construction. And there is the prophecy of the Centaurs, too............ ................ ..................... . None of this strikes me as non-integral to the books individually nor the large story. And while it is expository back-story, it is more than that. I suspect that if you extracted the prophecy from the books and tried to read them without it, you would find the task most difficult and without a single binding thread of such importunance or importance. So with King Arthur, so with Cair Paravel and its inhabitants, so with Aragorn.... And I quite agree that there is no book to which critical deconstruction can not be applied, but would contend that it is valueless in most cases as the critics rarely accomplish much. (See THE PERSONAL HERESY by CS Lewis!)
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
|