02-12-2004, 06:37 AM | #101 | |
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If you are referring to what I said to SGH - it's that a lot of people were jumped on for suggesting torture as a fitting thing for Carlie's murderer when they themselves have said the same things in the past. The only difference - the crime was different. Although - I wouldn't be surprised if it came out that Carlie was sexually assaulted. They still have not released any of the details of her death.
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02-12-2004, 06:38 AM | #102 | |
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If it is, I'd venture to suggest that Callicles is confusing emotion and subjectivity. |
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02-12-2004, 06:44 AM | #103 | ||
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02-12-2004, 06:51 AM | #104 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for what you were referring to - I edited that in I guess while you were responding.
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02-12-2004, 06:54 AM | #105 | ||||||
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02-12-2004, 07:05 AM | #106 | ||||
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02-12-2004, 07:29 AM | #107 | ||||
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02-12-2004, 01:23 PM | #108 | |
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For example, read the next two crimes and tell me how you felt when reading them.... crime #1. A man propositions a prostitute. crime #2. A man kidnaps, rapes and tortures a 6 year old boy for days, cuts his throat and dumps his naked body into a ditch. Either post now, without reading further... or scroll down to see what I think you feel right now. You can always come back and read the rest after you posted to see if I was right. We tend to be rather indifferent to the man who was arrested for soliciting the prostitute. However, I venture to say that you felt vile disgust for the man who killed the boy. Am I right? If this is the case, then all crime, as well as their punishments, are judged according to our emotions. Not all crimes are equal, as well, not all crimes can be punished the same. |
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02-12-2004, 01:43 PM | #109 | ||
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If you want to say we judge crimes through emotion - then you would have to use a more realistic example. 1) A 20 year old goes to a prostitute and gets arrested 2) A 40 year old goes to a prostitute and gets arrested while his dying wife is in the hospital. Now if these two crimes are treated differently - then the verdict is solely on emotion. Quote:
And if Australia allowed murder and pedophilia - I think that is really your choice. Don't know how long you would last as a country if anyone was allowed murder people though.
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02-12-2004, 01:52 PM | #110 | |
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I have to disagree with you. Brutality is measured by how we feel about what is done. Right? Someone may slap another across the face, that is brutal. But another might slash another with a knife across the face, that is more brutal. I'll use an example that is closer... crime #1. A man kills another man in a drunken bar brawl with a knife, simply because the other man was laughing too loud. crime #2. A man kills a 6 year old boy he sees on the street with a knife, simply because the boy was playing too loud. The second crime we would judge to be 'more brutal' (as you put it) because we have more sympathy for the little boy. Even though both crimes were senseless, we judge the second crime more harshly. |
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02-12-2004, 02:05 PM | #111 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for the woman dying - that can be brought out. But - being arrested for going to a prostitute does not go before a jury. All crimes have weights to them - and no crime is the same. This does not mean that the determining factor is emotion. It's how much the person suffered, what was the motivation behind the killing and so forth.
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02-12-2004, 02:23 PM | #112 |
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What if a prostitute is brutally murdered, compared to, say, a drunk bum living under a bridge? Are they not both lives? Is one less deserving than the other to have their murders vendicated? Would there murders be less important to a murder like Carlie's because the prostitute engaged in an illegal profession, or the bum was a bum?
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02-12-2004, 02:27 PM | #113 | |
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02-12-2004, 02:31 PM | #114 | |
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02-12-2004, 02:35 PM | #115 |
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Thats a really good point, and now I feel like a bad person, because, all of the Iraqis that I have seen dead I didnt really care about, not until I saw some of my boys dead, then I was (terrible to say, but in the intrest of honesty) actually glad, even though I didnt know them, because I in some twisted way figured that they must have had something to do with my fellow soldiers death. This sucks.
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02-12-2004, 02:39 PM | #116 | |
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Yes, there is a very strong emotional response to crime 2; yes that is a very big part of how we determine what's a crime and what isn't. We're human, we empathise with others' suffering, and that's a big clue as to when a crime is taking place. Deciding on a punishment, though, should not be led by emotion, because otherwise you end up with the law being an ass. Consistency is essential or else you have no justice. Since everyone's emotions are different, you would end up with no consistency. That's how you get guys getting off with a warning for date rape: because the male judge used his emotions too much and judged that "she was asking for it". I seem to be in agreement with JD on this. *looks out window to check if hell has frozen over * You could argue that it's inconsistent to make child murder worse than adult murder. |
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02-12-2004, 02:44 PM | #117 |
Elf Lord
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Cross-post
I'd still argue that it doesn't make the crime better or worse just because we can identify with them If justice is for all, then it has to be blind and not influenced by how popular the victim is. Beor, that's terrible and I'm sorry that you are having to go through all that. I would reckon it's completely normal to have those sorts of feelings about people who are your enemy and have been trying to harm you. |
02-12-2004, 02:45 PM | #118 | |
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[edit] still cant figure out that quote thing... cross posts rock! (oh well, man, life goes on)
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Well, there it is. Last edited by Beor : 02-12-2004 at 02:47 PM. |
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02-12-2004, 02:52 PM | #119 | ||
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02-12-2004, 02:53 PM | #120 | ||
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