01-25-2005, 05:45 PM | #101 |
The Intermittent One
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did you know chimpanzees are extremely capable of complex communication, as well as the fact that they teach ritual, tool-making etc?
does this mean they have a "soul"? |
01-25-2005, 06:26 PM | #102 | |
Fëanorophobic
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EDIT: Anyway, back to our original topic, those of you who see religion as a hindrance to the process of "individuation" as our teacher (quoting C. G. Jung) calls it, what do you think is a better path towards the individual? Last edited by Beren3000 : 01-25-2005 at 06:30 PM. |
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01-25-2005, 06:31 PM | #103 |
The Intermittent One
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complex communication is a sign of higher reasoning and thus emotion, just ask any ethnoarchaeologist or bioanthropologist or palaeosociologist,
plus the significance of ritual and religion which is demonstrated by chimpanzees, and even more so by pygmy chimpanzees, thereby clearly showing ultimate sentience, maybe not up to exactly the same level as most cultures of homo sapiens sapiens, but maybe surpassing that of homo sapiens neanderthalensis. IMO, i am not sure of the existence of a "soul" anyhoo, which is a whole other thread right there! |
01-25-2005, 06:53 PM | #104 | ||
the Shrike
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*Well, you did ask for a bio-anthropologist's POV
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01-25-2005, 07:27 PM | #105 | |
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01-25-2005, 11:33 PM | #106 | |||
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01-25-2005, 11:38 PM | #107 | |
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/me leans in behind chrys and breathes heavily on his neck I gotcha back man! and yer pants as well
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01-26-2005, 08:08 AM | #108 |
Elven Maiden
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OK, back to original topic (and I'm looking for that Avatar stuff- you'll have to wait a bit or you could probably find it on the internet)- religion and individualism.
Who says we have a true individualism? Where do our personallities come from? It seems that we are influenced by genetics, and by environment. Is there something beyond that too? If so, what is it? Do you believe in a soul or something? If there's nothing else, then how can we even be individuals? If we are made of only our influences acting on the starting point determined by genetics, then isn't religion just one more influence? Is individualism thinking for ourselves? (I mean, to try to look at a thing and decide where you stand on it objectively? ..or something.) If so, then what is influencing our decisions anyway? Is individualism something like our true self? Where does that come from? What is it? If there is no true individualism, does that matter? Is it ok if we just live our lives trying to remain true to that person that outside forces have created? If I sound too Naturalist, blame it on English class and Stephen Crane. Transcendentalism is so much more appealing somehow... |
01-26-2005, 10:39 AM | #109 | |||
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01-26-2005, 11:46 AM | #110 | |
Elf Lord
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Even variant forms of expression such as rants or emotional responses to the subject contribute in some form to two results: 1) an increase in knowledge of the topic(s) and 2) an increase in understanding of the topic as it relates to the participants and their lives (professional or personal). Quite a lot going on in conversation among humans.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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01-26-2005, 04:27 PM | #111 | |||
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Personally, I have mentioned that I follow (rather sketchily) Buddhism- I like the idea that I am acting in a certain way not because of fear of the wrath of God, but because it's a good way to live. From what you said, it doesn't seem that you are doing the former either (but I could be wrong- it happens quite often, actually). Quote:
Lastly, are you the one I was talking with in the Emily Dickinson fan club thread? I'm sorry I kinda ditched you. My mind was just elsewhere. Or my English class was. I never realized how influenced I was by my English class. Everyone better be ready to hear me quoting Mark Twain for a while now, hahaha! (...um, no.) |
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01-26-2005, 05:18 PM | #112 | |
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01-26-2005, 05:46 PM | #113 |
Elven Maiden
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Hm, if you don't mind (and it's not too off topic) why exactly do you follow the rules, if not for either of the reasons you mentioned? I know when I still considered myself a Christian, I felt like I wanted to follow the Ten Commandments, because Jesus said so and because I believed it was right to follow Him, even if I didn't understand the reasons behind all of them. I have to admit that there was a certain element of fear though- Catholicism is really terrible- I used to feel guilty all the time, especially in confession.
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01-27-2005, 10:53 AM | #114 | ||
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01-27-2005, 11:09 AM | #115 |
Elven Maiden
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Yeah, Catholicism isn't really a bad religion- from afar, I'm kind of fond of it actually. Have you heard of the Catholic guilt trip though?
Whenever I was in confession, for example, I'd mention that I didn't go to church every week and that I didn't feel I prayed enough. And he'd say something like that if God is so wonderful and has done so much for you, why can't you take one single hour out of your life for Him? I suppose I was probably too sensitive. Also, you say you haven't reasoned out the morals of Christianity, but have you reasoned out Christianity itself, or are you just believing it because that's how you were raised? I suppose whether a person believes in something because they've thought it out logically or if they are just following their heart, there's some honour in it either way. ...or something. |
01-27-2005, 11:56 AM | #116 | |
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I'd much rather spend my Sundays laying in the grass in the park, enjoying the world as God made it. To me, that is giving time to God...appreciating what He's made.
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 01-27-2005 at 11:57 AM. |
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01-27-2005, 12:01 PM | #117 |
Elven Maiden
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I think so too, Starr. Even though I'm agnostic now. There's an Emily Dickinson poem that goes along those lines.. "Some keep the Sabbath by going to church..." Beren3000?
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01-27-2005, 12:31 PM | #118 |
Elf Lord
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I love that poem.
I'm also basically agnostic, though I cling to certain Christian ideals, and have a feeling I'll come back to the faith like I have previously. The last four-five years have been rather interesting for me, spiritually.
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01-27-2005, 01:01 PM | #119 |
Elven Maiden
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I see. I'd like to hear about it sometime, if you don't mind that is. I've gone through a lot spiritually last couple years too.
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01-27-2005, 04:29 PM | #120 | ||
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