10-13-2002, 09:47 PM | #101 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-13-2002 at 09:49 PM. |
||
10-13-2002, 09:50 PM | #102 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 409
|
Re: Re: I'm glad I don't live there!!
Quote:
Yes trade sanctions would be disastrous.......but I trust my government to do it if it is the right decision.......e.g the existing sanctions against Iraq......Iraq invaded Kuwait, this was of course wrong as Kuwait had taken no military action against Iraq |
|
10-13-2002, 09:54 PM | #103 | ||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
Quote:
Get your evidence, and THEN attack. You seem to forget that if this war goes ahead, many civilians will die. These people didn't ask to be run by a madman. If America goes to war, thousands will die. They had just better make sure that they are right first. Can we please refrain from the "blame x" theme? It's completely futile, and hardly pertinent to this thread.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
||
10-13-2002, 09:58 PM | #104 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Re: Re: Re: I'm glad I don't live there!!
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||
10-13-2002, 10:00 PM | #105 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 409
|
Stating the bleedin' obvious
Quote:
|
|
10-13-2002, 10:02 PM | #106 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
10-13-2002, 10:04 PM | #107 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Re: Stating the bleedin' obvious
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
10-13-2002, 10:05 PM | #108 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 409
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm glad I don't live there!!
Quote:
Well yes, of course we both expect our governments to act in our best interests.................surely this discussion would be redundant otherwise |
|
10-13-2002, 10:11 PM | #109 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm glad I don't live there!!
Quote:
I DO want Saddam Hussein out of Iraq. I think it is the best thing for the peace of the world. I do however hope that we can do it without going through a huge militray conflict. If we can somehow manage to take him out in the dark of night - that would be the best.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-13-2002 at 10:19 PM. |
|
10-13-2002, 10:32 PM | #110 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
Now. I agree with you JD, that the world would probably be a better place without Hussein. This person had the gall to take advantage of UN sympathy and use it to build his palaces instead of using it on medical treatment for those that direly needed it. The man is without a doubt, one of the biggest SOBs out there. BUT. I hardly think that waging an unprovoked war against someone that may or may not have WMD is conducive to the situation. By going in there with inconclusive evidence makes the US almost as bad as he is. I'll say it again: thousands of civilians will DIE if the US goes to war.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|
10-13-2002, 10:41 PM | #111 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||
10-13-2002, 10:53 PM | #112 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
And it really depends on which weapons inspectors you're talking about. They're hardly consistent in their opinions, ya know. Some are saying that there's no way that he could manage to pull out WMD in the next ten years or so. Really, there's no way of knowing, unless we can get some conclusive evidence. I really hope these weapons inspections go ahead without hitch... and that *BOTH* sides behave.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 10-13-2002 at 10:54 PM. |
|
10-13-2002, 11:07 PM | #113 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
10-13-2002, 11:24 PM | #114 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 409
|
Quote:
I agree with you JD a quick assassination would be the best outcome........but it will have a couple of small complications. Saddam is not an easy bugger to find (dopplegangers etc) and his son (who's name escapes me) is the head of his armed forces and from press reports his son is so mad he makes Saddam look like Father Christmas.............if they do have WMD then I think the son will have no hesitation in using them .......if they find WMD the only future I can see is a big Iraq shaped hole where people used to live. Last edited by osszie : 10-13-2002 at 11:25 PM. |
|
10-14-2002, 12:31 AM | #115 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
10-14-2002, 05:10 AM | #116 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 694
|
Hussein has one and only one bargaining tactic - he takes up a strong position - stronger than where he needs to be, with rhetoric to suit - then at the very last minute "climbs down" a little, thought only to a position he initially would have been happy with. He's playing to the moderate Arab and non-aligned part of the gallery, making it look like he's the conciliatory one beset by bullies. Also he'll announce a sweeping "acceptance" only to clarify it a little later with conditions which mean it isn't an acceptance at all.
Let's face it, the West missed its chance in 1991. His army disintegrating, the Marsh Arabs in the south rebelling, the Kurds in the north hostile as ever to him - but for whatever reasons we bottled it and decided our remit was just the liberation of Kuwait. Well it might have been - but that remit was easier to stretch than building up a case for a "first strike", which is where we're at now. Thorough inspections will drive weapons developments underground but I very much doubt they'll stop them. That Hussein is a deranged maniacal dictator is not in doubt - but in the past that hasn't been enough to prompt the West to attack a nation. It comes down to the weapons of mass destruction argument - and where they're concerned, "better safe than sorry" isn't such a bad idea. I just wish the evidence for that was proving a little more compelling than it has been so far.
__________________
I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
10-14-2002, 05:54 AM | #117 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
|
Ye, I wish we had finished the job the first time. The reasons for not doing so then are the same reasons for not invading know. I think that Chaney & Co. regret not finishing Hussein off much more than I do. I can't help but believe that large egos are involved, however, if the case is made either by weapons inspectors finding nuclear materials, or by blocked inspections, then it may be enough justification to go in. If Hussein is willing to risk war with the US then maybe he is crazy. We must accept that this war would be very detrimental to the US in terms of finance, miltary readiness, and credibility in the world.
The war will cost hundreds of billions of dollars and will come with a long term commitment. While the US miltary is advanced it's troop strength is weak and such a war would require a huge commitment of troops. If anything else happens we would be hard pressed to respond without a draft. Finally, every tinpot dictator will have an excuse to attack his neighbor. How long will India and Pakistan wait to "eliminate the nuclear threat"? At least for show, the US must go through every last step to avert war while maintaining the pressure. Remember that the favorite tactic of US enemies has been to ameliorate until democracy changes the US players. Castro has gotten by on that for years. The formula that cantained Castro is the most effective policy outside war. Whilehe has been allowed to stay in power the long term effect has forced him closer to the US position. Threats of war will rally a people to the side of the worst dictator. Endless sactions and embargoes crush the will of the people to follow and they don't cost nearly as much. Cuba will probably be a democracy within ten years. Remember they had actually nuclear missles during the Cuban missle crisis.
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
10-14-2002, 08:05 AM | #118 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
My closest neighbor, and a very dear friend both have young sons who joined the Navy and Air Force in the spring of 2001. Both signed up for 5 years. We are bumming heavily over this, but what can you do! The boy in the Air Force has already spent about 6 months in what he called "the big sand box", Quatar (?). Thank goodness he's back, but with several more years to go....?! The Navy boy is gearing up to go somewhere, they never know or can tell what they're doing. One mom prays a lot, the other chain smokes. Of course, the boys volunteered, but both sets of parents were unhappily surprised when they did. They are proud of their young sons, but would have preferred different scenarios for parental pride!
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
10-14-2002, 09:29 AM | #119 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 409
|
Quote:
|
|
10-14-2002, 09:34 AM | #120 |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
same as for my mate hes in the signals in the british army hes a bit nervous he only joind a few mounths ago.
what i want to know is how do the people of iraq see sadam? do they like him? apprentally he's quite evil to them. If he were assinated how would they react? If military action does take place what form will the action take? A full scale ingvaion or just air strikes?
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Iran and Iraq-problems-outlook-discussion | brownjenkins | General Messages | 208 | 05-27-2008 12:45 PM |
The effectiveness of a "War" on terror | Fenir_LacDanan | General Messages | 121 | 02-02-2007 03:29 PM |
Putting Saddam's conviction into perspective | MrBishop | General Messages | 24 | 11-21-2006 04:56 AM |
WMD search officially over in Iraq | Ragnarok | General Messages | 40 | 01-14-2005 04:48 PM |