Grammar, Punctuation, Spelling, etc.

[azalea]

Well, this is even worse: the newspaper for which my husband used to work (whew! caught that preposition! ) routinely has typos and errors of all kinds. And recently his editor inserted a quote of himself in a story! That was really bad! It was a story about someone at some meeting verbally attacking the paper's position on something. It's a small town paper, though, so it's not AS bad as if it were a large metro paper, but still...

[sun-star]

Do all you grammar people always stick to the preposition rule? I do when I remember because I think it often sounds more elegant, but it always makes me think of that quote: "that is something up with which I will not put"

[crickhollow]

that's terrific...I hadn't heard it before. I don't know whether or not I always stick to that rule, because it doesn't require a conscious effort on my part to remember it. I usually do it unconsciously, but I'm positive that there are time when I forget.

[crickhollow]

I read the word "abysmal" in one of TC's posts. That's a terrific adjective!

Just thought I'd share... Does anyone else have pet words or phrases that you love to use?

I especially like fata morgana, but I've not had occasion yet to slip it into conversation. I'll keep trying. BTW it means an illusion--it's a reference to Morgan LeFaye, of Arthurian fame.

[Rían]

I like "abysmal", too! Also someone recently used "impugn" - that has such a nice dignified sound.

I am pretty careful about the "preposition rule", but I have no problem "breaking it" if I think the sentence sounds better that way.

Wow, I like fata morgana - never heard of it! Shall we have a contest to see who can use it first? (and then describe the strange looks that we get?)

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Wow, I like fata morgana - never heard of it! Shall we have a contest to see who can use it first? (and then describe the strange looks that we get?)

You're on. But it has to be used in such a way as to make it relevant to the conversation in which you are participating.

[Rían]

awww, you're no fun! you mean it can't just be "I wonder how you spell fata morgana?" (hee hee)

OK, spoilsport, you're on! But it's harder for me - I'm usually surrounded by people 7 and under!

[crickhollow]

well, give myself the same handicap, but 7-year-olds are pretty scarce on my campus...

[IronParrot]

I am rather anal about proper English. Kind of like Professor Henry Higgins, you might say.

It is indeed true that schools are not teaching kids how to write. High school graduation requirements are so low nowadays that people can get diplomas and still be practically and functionally illiterate. This is, I think, the biggest problem with the K-12 education system and needs to be addressed immediately.

[crickhollow]

Very true, IP. I found a website that showcases this point. However, with the situation as dire as this, one begins to lose hope for the public schools. I plan to homeschool my children.

[IronParrot]

Yeah, but the problem with homeschooling is that although it is very good in theory and in principle, I do believe that it is negative to social growth. I know for a fact that almost all of my social skills came from interacting with people at school, and not outside. (And not until very late either... I never got along with other people my age until pretty late in the game. I'm not sure I do to this day.) And I do know some people who were homeschooled until the age of twelve or whatever, who performed well academically but lacked communication skills. That has to be taken into consideration.

And then there's the whole bit with university entrance and all, but I don't think anybody homeschools their kids for THAT long, right?

[Wayfarer]

So what you're saying is that home schooling produces very intelligent people with poor social skills, while public schools produce very social people with low intelligience.

Right?

Wayfarer, who prefers cynicism over communication any day. ]: )

[Silverstripe]

Originally posted by IronParrot
Yeah, but the problem with homeschooling is that although it is very good in theory and in principle, I do believe that it is negative to social growth. I know for a fact that almost all of my social skills came from interacting with people at school, and not outside. (And not until very late either... I never got along with other people my age until pretty late in the game. I'm not sure I do to this day.) And I do know some people who were homeschooled until the age of twelve or whatever, who performed well academically but lacked communication skills. That has to be taken into consideration.

And then there's the whole bit with university entrance and all, but I don't think anybody homeschools their kids for THAT long, right?

Homeschooling, if it is done right, does not have a negative effect on social growth. There are several homeschooling organizations that have times every day for homeschooled kids of all ages to get together, generally to learn some new skill (academic, musical, sport). This not only introduces children to other children their age who by and large will NOT be mean to them (unlike public school), but also to younger and older children. At least in my area, there are no real "cliques" in the homeschooling community. Nobody is made fun of, teased, or beat up -- if they are, it's the bully who is shunned, not the victims of bullies. One cannot become more popular by picking on others. Very few people, child or adult, tolerate bullying. Also, it's not important to be "cool"... it's more important to be you!

Yes, people do homeschool their children all through high school. And some universities are less inclined to accept them, but many universities have basically said homeschoolers are "the cream of the crop" when it comes to students.

Actually, the one problem (if you choose to see it this way) might be that most homeschoolers are VERY conservative -- though not all.

[IronParrot]

That's why you have to find specialized programmes in the public system... the ultimate compromise. From the fourth grade onwards I was enrolled in accelerated curricula that were offered in the public system. That way the kids who are ahead of the curve are "ghettoized" together in a way that at least doesn't allow their peers to drag them down quite so much.

Public schools have abysmally low graduation standards... it's like they want to hand out as many diplomas as possible with no regard for how qualified those kids actually are. That's why there are all these different ways - around here in Alberta, anyway, and we're supposed to have one of the highest standards in the world (yeah, right) - of circumventing actually learning stuff. And that's why the mainstream curriculum plods along so slowly.

If you look at the majority of people coming out of high school, they can't read, or rather they don't read, they can hardly write, they have trouble telling the difference between communism and fascism (I'm not kidding) and in case you think this is just a humanities thing, their math is no improvement over what the Greeks knew three thousand years ago.

And I'm not saying that public schools consistently produce very social people either.

[IronParrot]

"Homeschooling, if it is done right, does not have a negative effect on social growth."

I agree, with emphasis on if it is done right.

"Yes, people do homeschool their children all through high school. And some universities are less inclined to accept them, but many universities have basically said homeschoolers are "the cream of the crop" when it comes to students."

I can understand that, but if you look at things like Ivy League standards, where admission is severely limited just because of capacity, standardized testing is a must. Granted, I know that homeschooled children can certainly challenge Advanced Placement exams and ace them all...

[Wayfarer]

like they want to hand out as many diplomas as possible with no regard for how qualified those kids actually are.

That hits the nail squarely on the head.

If you look at the majority of people coming out of high school, they can't read, or rather they don't read

No... you had it right the first time. ]: ) On a good day, I'll go through two 500 page novels. The average person reads less than that on a good year.

they have trouble telling the difference between communism and fascism

That's hardly surprising.

their math is no improvement over what the Greeks knew three thousand years ago.

This is the country that tried to legislate that pi would be three.

[Silverstripe]

Originally posted by IronParrot
I agree, with emphasis on if it is done right.


I can understand that, but if you look at things like Ivy League standards, where admission is severely limited just because of capacity, standardized testing is a must. Granted, I know that homeschooled children can certainly challenge Advanced Placement exams and ace them all...

Also, public schooling is most advantageous to the student when it is done right.

It seems like here, homeschooling is more likely to be "done right" than public schooling, perhaps because parents have many fewer students than public school teachers do, know their children, and can more readily adapt the lessons for their children's unique learning styles.

[IronParrot]

"This is the country that tried to legislate that pi would be three."

God save us all if the Religious Right ever take power.

[Wayfarer]

God save us all if the Religious Right ever take power.

Actually, The Religious Right would include, um, Me. . The left doesn't exactly have a monopoly on smart people.

[Rían]

Well, crick, I think I've given up on using "fata morgana", because my dictionary notes "especially one sometimes seen off the coast of Sicily near the Strait of Messina". I wonder if it is typically the same type of mirage? Shall we meet in Sicily and find out?

Just bumped into an interesting word today - inchoate. JRRT used it in one of his letters. The def:

Just begun; not yet clearly or completely formed.