01-28-2008, 03:54 AM | #101 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
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Now, that's a philosopher
Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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01-28-2008, 05:43 AM | #102 |
Elf Lady
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale
Posts: 8,588
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Hehe, very nice! I can't access your link though.
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
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01-28-2008, 10:10 AM | #103 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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Oooops, try this:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/12/2...24spurlit.html The Wickedest Man in Oxford Which also tells you how it happens that a 77-year-old logical positivist was entertaining a bevy of New York models.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
01-28-2008, 10:51 AM | #104 |
Elf Lady
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale
Posts: 8,588
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Nope, still can't access
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
01-28-2008, 11:15 AM | #105 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
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Hmmm, works for me- what message do you get?
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
01-28-2008, 12:59 PM | #106 |
Elf Lady
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale
Posts: 8,588
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I need to log in... I used to have an account for the online Times, but that's years ago. It seems that it isn't valid anymore, I tried. I could try to subscribe again, but...
__________________
Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
02-04-2008, 12:39 PM | #107 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Jimmy Carter is insane.
Quote:
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
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02-04-2008, 01:06 PM | #108 |
Elf Lady
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I don't understand half of what I read, but I think that what I understood implies that this Carter has a few ideas that are not really compatibility with my own views on religion. He raises an interesting point though: what would the world have looked like if Jesus had chosen to relate to Satan rather then to God. Not that it does us any good to think of it, because Jesus would never have, but I doubt that it would have been conform Carters ideas.
Which reminds me: shouldn't this be in the Theology thread rather then in the Philosophy one?
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
02-04-2008, 02:03 PM | #109 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
Carter says, 'Some Christian denominations focus on material things instead of service." Well, some do. Prayer lists can be full of that stuff, depending on the church. And the history of the last 2000 years has featured some pretty tough arguments between Christians about that. Carter says, "The temptation of Christ was, most centrally, the temptation to 'do good"." The same is true (and for good reason) of the temptation of Gandalf. "The way to my heart is through pity, pity for the weak and the desire to do good" (This is my paraphrase from memory). The spin on this is dreadful.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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02-04-2008, 02:30 PM | #110 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-04-2008, 09:05 PM | #111 |
Elf Lord
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Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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IR, you have misunderstood Jesus, Carter and Bush in a single thought. Congratulations on a new level of incomprehension.
Jimmy is having a bit of trouble with his Bible. George is having trouble with his. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." And he resisted efforts to make him such on more than one occasion. Of course, the folks only wanted him to be king to give them food, as he told them. He further stated they should work for the bread that was kingdom bread and not merely food. You see how far that got.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
02-05-2008, 03:32 AM | #112 |
Elf Lord
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Anybody got a link to the original Carter quote?
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
02-05-2008, 11:32 AM | #113 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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Nothing like a good loaf of bread!
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
02-07-2008, 02:14 PM | #114 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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With a nice, triple cream brie, and some juicy olives or strawberries on the side, and a bottle of nice red wine to wash it all down? Mmm.....I want a picnic....
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
11-24-2009, 11:10 PM | #115 |
"The Bomb"
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: all over the place
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I've got a good FDR quote on the philosophy of college students: "Now would be a good time for a beer." As he signed the bill to partially repeal prohibition.
*stretches* Ah! *sighs* *sits* *cracks knuckles* The old philosophy thread. Er, the new philosophy thread. But it's OK. To merge them at this point would put us right near 500 post anyway huh. You know what seems like the most urgent issue in the world to me? It's the life work of Jean Piaget, a Swiss developmental psychologist, who found that only one third of the entire world ever reaches the capacity to reason abstractly. IOW you're right! Most people are stupid! It's a fact that's been proven time and time again.* Anybody familiar with Piaget here? Awesome. But he should be a household name. Here's his "Stage Theory" of psychosocial development, in a nutshell. Stage 1 - Sensorimotor Period - In infancy, we experience the world primarily through feeling things, staring at things, listening and smelling things, and putting things in our mouths. Stage 2 - Preoperational Period - Toddlers begin to understand the world around them, but barely. Watching them talk to one another is listening to two separate yet face-to-face conversations at once. Stage 3 - Operational Period - When we develop a better handle on our universe. We can be taught math, and can eyeball liquid volume in variously shaped containers. We become less cute. Stage 4 - Abstract Operations - We graduate to the philosopher class. When faced with new information, we judge its credibility and quality before tucking it into our memory banks. We combine learning with insight, and understanding with wisdom. Critical and independent thinking are the landmarks of this stage. The surveys have been repeated and repeated for decades on large and small scales. The results are in: Only one third of humanity ever reaches Stage 4. I call these people "Stage Fours," and I believe that's the kind of people that societies should actively try to create. Independent and deep thought should be the goal of every student. Generation after generation the educational and family systems should be tweaked to that end, and eventually, when Stage Fours have assumed the majority... That is our only realistic hope for an end to all war and a decrease in injustice IMHO. What do you think? On my other computer I've got a bunch of citations if that need arises. *EDIT: http://www.brainstages.net/4thr.html I also edited for clarity. Last edited by Bombadillo : 12-04-2009 at 10:54 AM. |
11-25-2009, 12:08 AM | #116 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I think the implied elitism is rather appalling. It's a very short road from here, to thinking of most people as in some sense "subhuman"...
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
11-25-2009, 07:51 AM | #117 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Quote:
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We are not things. |
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11-26-2009, 07:24 AM | #118 |
Chaotic Good
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I can't quite believe that. I think that the vast majority of people have the capacity for abstract reasoning. Piaget's theory is interesting from a child-development perspective, but not when it's used to promote the idea that 'most people are stupid.' Most people seem to reach 'Stage 4' sometime in their teenage years. I'd question the study that states only one third of people ever do.
I do like his constructionist ideas about learning, though.
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Vanima i metta nauva, nan anda ar sarda nauva i mallë.
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11-26-2009, 05:18 PM | #119 | |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Quote:
I say stick to the Platonic and Kantian ideals that there is an inherent good in the conversation (be it online or face-to-face): Enjoying one's life through enhancing one's own moral reflection by speaking to, and reflecting on, on other people's life views and experiences. My two cents.
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." |
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11-27-2009, 04:45 AM | #120 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Certainly, reflecting on experience is essential in the philosophical tradition, and conversation is a very important part of it. But, this is carried out on an abstract level. One doesn't philosophize from one single experience. Philosophy is about knowledge, yes. And knowledge is had, according to most philosophers, in the abstract. Certainly, this is the case with Plato. As for Kant, he's rather obscure, and I make no claim to understand him from what I have read of his writings. I would hazard a guess, based on his concern for a priori propositions (and his incomprehensible language!), that he would also see philosophy as an abstract reasoning process.
As regards "truth", the introduction of the term bare and naked is unhelpful. What do you mean by "truth"? The "truth" that most philosophers have sought is one which is found through abstract reasoning.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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