01-14-2004, 03:01 PM | #101 | |
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As for the Extended Editions - why should we wait until then to see if they "fixed" anything they screwed up in the movies. They should have gotten it right in the movies - period. A GOOD director - just doesn't introduce plot lines and then drop them half way through, or have a key character and plot being followed and then just whitewash the conclusion later on. The three films flow very poorly and the plot is extremely jumpy. I don't care if Jackson puts some closure to Saruman in the Extended Edition - it DOES NOT appear in the film - which is what matters. Jackson has in the TT about Pippin and Merry growing - but in RotK isn't even addressed. Even in the RotK EE it can not be addressed because at the Grey Havens - Pippin is shorter than Sam. This is the type of stuff that indicates such poor film making in my eyes. The action, special effects are great - but not much else. As for the adaptation - don't forget - Arwen WAS at Helm's Deep FIGHTING - Jackson just changed that because of the outcry against Arwen in FotR and brought her back to more of what she was in the books.
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01-14-2004, 04:36 PM | #102 |
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I would say that the EE of the Two Towers certainly does help, and I continue to be optimistic about the Return of the King. . .but I think you're right about the storytelling thing. I mean, they got the main story arc, the destruction of the Ring fine, but they ended up ignoring and/or cutting short other important pieces of the story, i.e. Saruman, Eowyn and Faramir. . .and while they may redeem themselves later on with the DVDs they put out, should not the point be getting the story across well in the theatrical versions and the DVDs should just have the extra stuff? Alas. . .it's especially troubling because I think they did such a good job with the things they did include (well, for the most part) that I am fairly certain they did well with the things they cut. Just have to wait 'til November. . .
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01-14-2004, 05:58 PM | #103 | |
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Just enough of the LOTR book was added to the film to easily permit one who has read the books to be able to mentally fill-in (usually done subconsciously) any gaps and omissions from the film presentation of LOTR. When one pays closer attention to see if the film actually has a logical progression, many things are either not clear, not there, or not logical/inconsistent looking. (one example I can think of off the top of my head are the ENTS. From the movie alone they are inconsistent. First they state they are not hasty and decide not to fight. Then at a moments notice notice -- Its war.) In this respect, If one never read the book it is better. They will have an easier time in criticizing the film if it is internally consistent and makes sense without their subconscience filling in the blanks for them.
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01-14-2004, 06:22 PM | #104 | |
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That said, do you agree that PJ had to cut some material out of the books for the sake of time? In my opinion, he was forced to do so by logistical constraints. Therefore, for everything he cut that you think he should've kept, I'd be interested to know what you think he should've cut. Personally, I don't agree with all of his decisions, but I think most of them made sense. I would've loved to see more of Saruman any many other things, but most of them were cut in favor of more important material. I'm curious what you think.
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01-14-2004, 07:11 PM | #105 | ||
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He could have cut out some of the action sequences - and put the time into other things. He didn't have to add so much of his own garbage. But why would he do that - he owns WETA and the things he increased dealt with special effects. Ultimately - by concentrating more on the special effects and the action sequences - it put more money into his pocket through WETA.
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01-14-2004, 07:18 PM | #106 | |||
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01-14-2004, 07:43 PM | #107 | |||
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I agree with you on the plot holes/missing scenes you pointed out, like Merry and Pippin and the Ent draughts, and Galadriel's gifts. All scenes important to the plot (such as the above) should be included in the theatrical version, and continued in sequels. The Extended Edition should be reserved for bonus scenes that are not critical to the plot, rather than making up for the shortcomings of the theatrical version.
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01-14-2004, 07:48 PM | #108 | |
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I wish he had the brains not to change Flight to the Ford so much - but he didn't.
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01-14-2004, 08:00 PM | #109 | |||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-14-2004, 08:14 PM | #110 | |
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01-14-2004, 08:22 PM | #111 | |
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It's like not criticizing someone for planning and thinking to rob a store - but then only stop because a police officer walks by. The person deserves criticism for even thinking about robbing a store. It isn't like they changed their mind on their own and had a change of heart - they just knew that they would be in deep trouble if they went ahead with their plan and ideas at that time.
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01-14-2004, 08:31 PM | #112 | ||
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I don't completely agree with you, but you do have a point.
I will amend my statement to: Whatever his reasons, he can be fogiven for thinking about a mistake because it's on the cutting room floor. We can give him the benefit of the doubt, since we can't prove he wouldn't have cut the scene anyway, without influence. There's a lot of material actually in the movie worth criticizing, so I can't be bothered with something that he (thankfully) cut. Imagining more Xena-Arwen scenes is bad, but it's not that bad. To continue your analogy, I don't condone it, but it's not illegal to think about robbing a store.
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01-14-2004, 08:34 PM | #113 | |
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I respect Peter Jackson and his works, even though he did make a few mistakes. Humans are, after all, falliable.
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01-14-2004, 08:37 PM | #114 | |
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01-14-2004, 08:40 PM | #115 | |
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01-14-2004, 08:43 PM | #116 | |
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01-14-2004, 08:46 PM | #117 | |||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-14-2004, 08:56 PM | #118 | ||||
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You make changes like - replacing Glorfindel with Arwen - because in Lord of the Rings - Glorfindel is a minor character and you don't want to introduce too many character that don't mean anything. You don't rape the whole Flight to the Ford scene. Quote:
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01-14-2004, 09:10 PM | #119 | |||||
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Again, they're not perfect. I agree with you that what they did to that scene was unnecessary, and it could have been better. They made a few mistakes. I'm okay with that. I'm not attached to some great and holy vision of the books, that cannot be altered in any way. If they make a few mistakes that's okay. They're human. Quote:
His conception of what is close to the book may not be the same as yours. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINIONS, INTERPRETATIONS AND VIEWPOINTS. GET OVER IT. Quote:
So he made some changes to the characters. I don't believe he made them completely new and different, though, despite those changes. To me, Arwen was much the same in the last scene with her in Return of the King. I think that scene, with her behind the banner, captures the essence of her character from the book quite nicely. Quote:
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01-14-2004, 09:20 PM | #120 | |||||
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Pippin and Merry were strictly brain dead comic relief and Gimli was mostly comic relief. Gandalf was a dottering old fool - I have said all this aobut the characters - and yes - I do have a problem with them. Come on - Gandalf pushing the gates of Moria inward when he KNOWS the only open outward. Why did he do that in the movies? Because Jackson wanted the cliched cheap laugh. Ha ha - gandalf just tried pushing the stone in - duh duh. Quote:
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