The News Thread

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

As usual hector, you are not reading carefully. *tch tch* The murder of women by husbands and brothers is very much 'connected to an ideology". The difference is, that ideology is the dominent one, here.

And that is the ONLY difference.

Explain?

In any case, my point is that in the United States etc, murder is illegal, looked down upon etc....but for some reason, "honor killings" within the religion of Islam often gets a pass

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Mari

We have freedom of religion and as much as people seem to be forgetting it these days, the Islam is a religion like others.
Being tolerant doesn't mean accepting everything in the name of diversity.

Just wanted to have that said.

So in the name of freedom of religion then, allowing Muslims within your country to commit honor killings.

I'm sure many Muslims who don't commit such acts would argue that honor killings ARE NOT part of Islam The Religion, but is rather a cultural aspect of that part of the world (the middle-east)...so disallowing it in the Netherlands would not violate Freedom of Religion. It would just be saving the lives of a few women who would otherwise die because of something silly, like having a Facebook profile.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0354/1006/NEWS

This upsets me so much.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0354/1006/NEWS

This upsets me so much.

Futher proof that the divisiveness of religion outweighs its benefits (and it does have a few benefits, I will admit).

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Futher proof that the divisiveness of religion outweighs its benefits (and it does have a few benefits, I will admit).

You don't think the problem is that everyone is forced into compulsory public education and not respecting each other? See, that's the conclusion *I* would draw. Let the people who want Christian prayer before graduation do it in private schools.

[brownjenkins]

I suppose, but the idea of the world being filled with communities that are all their own little island would make the bigger issue of just "all getting along" even harder.

Forced intergration with your larger community is a tough thing, but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives. While there's not much hope for the parents on either side of the issue, maybe the kids will grow up and realize later in life how silly the whole argument was on both sides.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I suppose, but the idea of the world being filled with communities that are all their own little island would make the bigger issue of just "all getting along" even harder.

Forced intergration with your larger community is a tough thing, but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives. While there's not much hope for the parents on either side of the issue, maybe the kids will grow up and realize later in life how silly the whole argument was on both sides.

See, I just don't think so. I think "forced integration with your larger community" also goes by the name of "cultural imperialism." It hasn't worked anywhere. Societal strength comes from embracing diversity... and that comes, first, from a deep sense of individual identity. You don't get that in a public institution, you get that in a family. You don't get it from busing, you get it from strong neighborhoods. We made a mistake when we let "separate but equal" exist, but we made another when we addressed it by removing kids from their homes and putting them in the care of people who, often, knew nothing about them. There would have been no need for this lawsuit if the powers that be in the district hadn't been, essentially, unconcerned with other points of view, despite having been in the public schools all their lives.

We need a new system. This one doesn't work.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hear, hear, sis. Homogeneity tends to smell more of crime than good.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

So in the name of freedom of religion then, allowing Muslims within your country to commit honor killings.

I'm sure many Muslims who don't commit such acts would argue that honor killings ARE NOT part of Islam The Religion, but is rather a cultural aspect of that part of the world (the middle-east)...so disallowing it in the Netherlands would not violate Freedom of Religion. It would just be saving the lives of a few women who would otherwise die because of something silly, like having a Facebook profile.

You completely missed my point in my post. I said that we DO NOT allow honour killings in the Netherlands. Killing = murder, murder = crime, crime = punished.
Really, where did you get that idea?

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

See, I just don't think so. I think "forced integration with your larger community" also goes by the name of "cultural imperialism." It hasn't worked anywhere. Societal strength comes from embracing diversity... and that comes, first, from a deep sense of individual identity. You don't get that in a public institution, you get that in a family. You don't get it from busing, you get it from strong neighborhoods. We made a mistake when we let "separate but equal" exist, but we made another when we addressed it by removing kids from their homes and putting them in the care of people who, often, knew nothing about them. There would have been no need for this lawsuit if the powers that be in the district hadn't been, essentially, unconcerned with other points of view, despite having been in the public schools all their lives.

We need a new system. This one doesn't work.

I'd say it does work. For all the minor issues we see in the United States, we get along with one another much better than just about any of nation in the world. The idea that it leads to homogeneity is wrong. Our country is as diverse and tolerant as it is because we all came to this country from different cultural backgrounds and were forced to mix with one another because there were no entrenced local cultures and social classes like there are in Europe.

In a big part though, that is only because our country is so relatively young. Over time those entrenced local cultures will set in, and the public school system is one of the few counters to that. It's the great levelling system. Take that away and each group will grow up independent of one another, and tolerance will decrease.

Cultural imperialism is imposing one particular moral view upon an entire society, which is basically what religion does. Integration, by comparision, is simply getting people to mix with one another. Everyone will still maintain their unique points of view, but they will also experience other points of view and hopefully learn to appreciate them.

When I was young, I grew up in and around New York City, going to many different public schools. It wasn't always easy, but it gave me an exposure to all different kinds of people that has made me the tolerant and understanding person I am.

Later in my school years, my parents settled us down in a typical upper middle class suburb in Connecticut. The population was basically entirely white and fairly well-off and, while I would not call them racist, it never ceased to amaze me how skewed the views of the kids who had grew up solely in that environment were. They thought that blacks were simply a different kind of animal than they were. The reason, I knew, was that they simply had not experienced anything outside their own cultural norm.

In the end, the power of cultural division will always outweigh anything society tries to do to get people to mix with one another. It's human nature to relate with only the like-minded. But, anything we can do to mix things up a bit, will help temper this a bit. And the best time to do this is at a very young age when people are less set in their ways and more open to different points of view.

[hectorberlioz]

Cultural imperialism is imposing one particular moral view upon an entire society, which is basically what religion does. Integration, by comparision, is simply getting people to mix with one another. Everyone will still maintain their unique points of view, but they will also experience other points of view and hopefully learn to appreciate them.

Yup, I agree with BJ on this.

[hectorberlioz]

Here's something I agree with:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/...terstitialskip

[Mari]

I like DST. I hated it that in Japan it would be dark at 17.00. But on the other hand, I don't like rising in the dark either. But I hate the first more then the second.

[hectorberlioz]

If this is true, it's not good news.

*sigh* Cyberwars are real...

[Mari]

Worrisome.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

If this is true, it's not good news.

*sigh* Cyberwars are real...

Given that CNN is reporting it, I wouldn't worry about it unless a real news agency reports the story.

Now here's a cool story. But everyone should go and check their smoke detectors now. (I know ours works because it goes of all the flippin time when we're cooking. [insert disparaging comment about our cooking here.])

[Mari]

Oh wow. Good thing there was snow and the mother did some quick thinking!
Our alarm goes off whenever my sis uses her deodorant again, it's a bit sensitive... At least it works.

[hectorberlioz]

A few links....

Coleslaw wrestling:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,6066094.story

The Confederacy's JB:
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=944#more-944

[hectorberlioz]

The see-through camera, developed in Britain.

Perverts

[hectorberlioz]

Troops, American and Iraqi, love Chuck Norris...
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/C.../10/79171.html