03-23-2002, 09:23 PM | #101 |
Hoplite Nomad
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i singled out emplynx and nibs
but as FF said also want to say thanks! to everyone who's keeping this thread calm and non-flamed
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
03-23-2002, 10:03 PM | #102 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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03-23-2002, 10:51 PM | #103 | |
the Shrike
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03-23-2002, 11:09 PM | #104 | |
the Shrike
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Uniformitarianism, which I assume you are referring to, is an outmoded theory that was expanded upon by Lyell, and was reinvented in the 1800s... Some aspects of the argument apply still - survival of the fittest - but on the whole, the theory is out-dated. And I suggest you look into the context of that quote by Leakey, which you have added your own spin to. That is not quite what he meant. I apologise if this is getting personal, but I highly object to being called names, in the middle of a debate: not only is it demeaning to me, but it is also demeaning to you, since you feel that you have to flame, to validate your arguments.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 03-23-2002 at 11:14 PM. |
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03-24-2002, 12:16 AM | #105 | |
Elven Warrior
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natural law is like our instinct of morality. rational nature can be used to derive what is good and evil. earlier you answered my question about what becomes of those who are ignorant of "god". and it was a good answer indeed. my theory ( at present, and it is subject to change) is that if one follows natural law and does believe in god, and he worships that god, by praying to that god, offering sacrifices(ie passover, lent, ect.) he can achieve salvation. there is probably some good info on the net about thomas aquinas and his theories on natural law. i believe he even goes into divine law also, but i cant remember enough to expand upon it. i hope what i said make sense. hehe, it may not though.
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03-24-2002, 01:36 AM | #106 |
Head Hollara
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Splendid, splendid... that would have been my first guess .
Assuming you described it correctly, MasterMothra, I think natural law is very true. One does not need to belong to an organized religion to practice organized beliefs. It does make it easier in many instances, though. And even if they're wrong, misery loves company, right (just kidding) ? However, the primary focus, as I have been taught, is the knowledge of the Gospel of Christ. Assuming they haven't had the "sufficient opportunity" that I mentioned earlier, they must still be administered to in the hereafter to hear that message. Once again, I merely speak from my own beliefs, but you know that when you ask and I answer, right ?
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03-24-2002, 02:27 AM | #107 |
Elven Warrior
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thank you for the answer. your posts are most informative and to expect any less would be dissapointing.
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"........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon. |
03-24-2002, 02:43 AM | #108 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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03-24-2002, 04:59 AM | #109 |
Hoplite Nomad
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beardofpants
sorry about the error as I've noted else where on this board its often hard to tell
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
03-24-2002, 05:24 AM | #110 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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Mary Leakey's findings changed the entire evolution theory that was regarded as true and sound at that time. My guess was that this quote meant, that you either accept the fossil finds and the implications of them on the theory or that you cling to an evolutionairy theory that is dated.
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03-24-2002, 05:29 AM | #111 | |
the Shrike
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03-24-2002, 02:44 PM | #112 |
Elven Warrior
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Okay, I just want to clear up amoe Age Theory stuff.. I'll do the best I can...
As far as the Bible goes, the earliest records within the Bible itself referring to age are from Abraham. We know that he lived about X B.C. Before that, we have no way of knowing how much time was between Creation and Abraham. There are numerous names where no age is given. As for me, I personally believe that the Earth is between 10 and 15 thousand years old. As for dating methods, I must remind you that these are not always accurate. Carbon dating was recently used on a LIVE worm, and it reported that the worm had been dead for 300 years. Carbon and Argon dating (which are by far the most evolutionarily popular) are only accurate to about 3000 years. Anything older than that, and you can't really trust it because the carbon half-lives get so messed up. I would like to say more, but I can't answer all the questions posted here.
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03-24-2002, 02:59 PM | #113 | |||||||||
The Original Corruptor
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Lief Erikson:
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I really want to believe in the flying pink unicorn. I value faith above evidence or proof, so I immediately have a belief in this flying pink unicorn (from faith). I then look around, and see if I can find anything around me that looks like it could fit neatly inside my belief. This is particularly interesting, in that strictly speaking, those who profess to know God are actually discarding the faith aspect - they don't have faith that God exists, they know it. And what does the bible have to say about the faithless? Quote:
Also, if you are indeed correct about miraculous claims occuring more frequently, it would not surprise me, as a religion that is becoming less and less popular will undoubtedly have some type of strategy to draw in new members - this I deem as one of them. What better way to impress people than to attribute unexplainable phenomena to a god? Take a look at Benny Hinn and other TV evangelists who use "miraculous faith healings" to their own benefit. Although I think the profitability factor is priority for those people, a secondary advantage is the way it can draw in new members. Another look at Benny Hinn and others will show that local support for their healings is decreasing drastically, necessitating both the need for more outrageous healings and the entry into the global market. I agree that miraculous events nowadays are of a primarily personal nature - it is becoming far more difficult to fool large groups of people. However, I fail to see how a perceived miracle can be strong evidence for Christianity, when miracles have reportedly been witnessed by people of other faiths. Also, sometimes someone who thinks they have been blessed with a miracle will not announce this occurence, in fear that it will somehow be explained to them in a valid way. It becomes more important that they believe a miracle is a miracle, and in doing so, their underlying beliefs are reinforced. It is incorrect to define a miracle as that which is scientifically impossible - unless you are implying the "good" scientific impossibilities, as it is obvious that miracles are defined from a subjective moral viewpoint. An interesting point, if these "good" scientific impossibilities are attributed to God, who or what are "neutral" and "bad" occurences attributable to. When a definition of a spiritual being can be given, it ultimately has to put itself in the line of fire of logic - does it make sense? Is it coherent? etc. If it is illogical, we can not be justified in believing it. The justification of belief in any two illogical concepts is equally non-existent. Quote:
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03-24-2002, 03:09 PM | #114 | |||||||||
The Original Corruptor
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Wayfarer:
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Theism is the belief in a god. The "A" prefix in atheism implies non, thus non-belief. However, it is never as clear as that, due to there being two kinds (possibly more) of atheistic stance - strong and weak. The strong atheist assumes a more confident stance, and will often try to justify his belief to others, while the weak atheist just lacks belief in a god, in the same way that they lack belief in that flying pink unicorn. I would regard myself, when referring to the Christian God, as a strong atheist, and perhaps when I have done enough research on other deities I will elevate my stance from weak to strong in each case - only time will tell. Quote:
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I also don't think that you have given adequate reasons for logical belief in a concious creator. What makes you think that the cause of the universe is concious, other than the loose assumption that because Christians have perceived their lives changing, it must be the Christian God? Quote:
Therefore, what other reasons besides first-cause do you give to justify your convictions? Quote:
Also, I believe MasterMothra brought the issue up earlier about the afterlife prior to Jesus. How did people get into heaven without the knowledge of Christ? Have the requirements for admission changed? I believe it is clearly evident. Quote:
B) You are justified while you are alive. Quote:
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03-24-2002, 03:34 PM | #115 | |||||
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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I havn't had time to work through all the responces since I have been gone but I am going to add some reponse.
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what part of the bible do i believe? "thou shalt not kill", or "an eye for an eye"? [/QUOTE] The bible says not to murder. Murder and Killing are not the same. Both of those statements are good. Quote:
Jesus was the sacrifice for all people to end. Quote:
4. The earth could be older... Maybe up to 20,000 but I don't think so. The Bibles is not clear, you can't just add up all the ages of people, because they often skip generations. Quote:
Christianity is the only religion in which people who experienced someone claiming to be God first-hand, died because they wouldn't back down. If Jesus didn't really come to them after he died, why would they die over it? |
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03-24-2002, 03:46 PM | #116 | ||
Hoplite Nomad
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as far as the live worm where did you get this information? even if it were true one error does not destroy all the supporting evidence Carbon maybe be the most well known but there are others when you use the term accurate it may be misleading it may not give an exact date however when we are speaking of such massive time scale being in- accurate by 5% doesn't mean much there not that much difference between 35,000 bc and say 30,000bc even carbon dating still shows the earth is older that biblical account as beardofpants says [ Quote:
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-24-2002, 05:23 PM | #117 | |
the Shrike
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RE carbon dating you can date from between 50 - 60 thousand years ago, right up to 1950. This is using AMS (accelerator mass spectromety). You are incorrecting in assuming that the dating goes back to only 3000 years accurately. And be careful what words you used to describe this 'accuracy'. This method is accurate, but it is not precise, unless you callibrate it. Since this method is callibrated, it is in fact, precise, NOT accurate. Also, there are other dating methods that you can use, for instance potassium argon dating. RE dating a live worm, where is your link? If you knew anything about carbon dating, you'd know that you can't date anything more recent than 1950, (but it can't be since you said, 'recently')so that bit of evidence that you threw at us, unless it happened before 1950, is simply not true. As for the age of the earth, I have already gone into great detail about how we can date strata that is older than the dates you have given. Hope this clears the dating methods up for you. In future, make sure you look into some research before stating some psuedo facts.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 03-24-2002 at 05:26 PM. |
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03-24-2002, 06:25 PM | #118 | ||
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Well, people, I think you should stop making vague statements trying to invalidate dating methods, considering BeardofPants knows how they work far better than anyone else here. I, for one, trust her judgment since she is studying the process right now, unlike everyone here who claims carbon dating & other methods don't work.
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03-24-2002, 08:32 PM | #119 |
the Shrike
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Oh, and like the broken down record that I am, why would anyone use a dating method, ie carbon dating, to date something that does not fit into the appropriate time range, when it costs at least two million dollars? Who has that kind of money floating around to date a live worm to prove that carbon dating doesn't work?
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03-24-2002, 09:30 PM | #120 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I dated a live worm once. It wasn't that exepensive. A movie, a little mulch.. Now dinosaurs, they will eat you out of house and home
Sorry but this thread needed a little intentional levity. The creationists are hilarous! It's like a shaggy dog story that never ends.
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