TTT extended Edition

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
The scene I was referring to was reviewed in the 20 minute clip from ROTK that some film critics (including folks from TORn and aintitcoolnews.com) were shown a couple of weeks ago.

Did YOU see it? I don't go by critics - nor what the jackson propaganda machine wants to put out.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Get to Cirith Ungol on time for what? lol

By the way, as JD and I talked earlier Osgiliath and Cirith Ungol are not far from each other, it is not that much longer...

If pioneers could travel 25 miles a day with handcarts through rocky paths, then Frodo and Sam could get there much sooner than that. It really isn't that big of a sidetrip.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by thranduil
If pioneers could travel 25 miles a day with handcarts through rocky paths, then Frodo and Sam could get there much sooner than that. It really isn't that big of a sidetrip.

it is because it took away from Frodo and Sam's character development and the demonstration of the toil of their journey. Instead jackson just wanted another cool action scene.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by thranduil
If pioneers could travel 25 miles a day with handcarts through rocky paths, then Frodo and Sam could get there much sooner than that. It really isn't that big of a sidetrip.

The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
it is because it took away from Frodo and Sam's character development and the demonstration of the toil of their journey. Instead jackson just wanted another cool action scene.

If you were correct in your assumption. Than Jackson has failed because the scene wasn't that "cool". But it built up Faramir's charachter and showed some of gollums reasons to betray Frodo and Sam. It wasn't another cool action scene. It had meaning behind it even if though there was a "little action" thats right a little, all we see is Gondorians shooting arrows at enemies we can't see and a fell beast getting shot.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

I agree it might have taken longer because they were tired, but where did you get 40 miles from?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

It is not 40 miles from the two points, it's 25 miles at the max...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by thranduil
If you were correct in your assumption. Than Jackson has failed because the scene wasn't that "cool".

Well I'm sure he liked it.

But it built up Faramir's charachter and showed some of gollums reasons to betray Frodo and Sam.

There were plenty of ways for jackson to build up Faramir's character without first reducing him down to a clone of Boromir. As for gollum's reason for turning against Frodo and Sam - that happened at the Forbidden Pool where he thinks Frodo tricked him. That has nothing to do with osgiliath.

It wasn't another cool action scene. It had meaning behind it even if though there was a "little action" thats right a little, all we see is Gondorians shooting arrows at enemies we can't see and a fell beast getting shot.

You call a city under siege - just a little action? It had Frodo practically HANDING the damn Ring to frigging Nuzgul. It completely destroys the theme of the books -as well as the power of the Nazgul. That scene in my opinion is as bad as Flight to the Ford. Where FttF deminished frodo's strength in the movie, Osgiliath deminishes the strength of the Nazgul.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
It is not 40 miles from the two points, it's 25 miles at the max...

He's including the trip TO osgiliath - which was out of the way for them. So I do think that the mileage would have to be taken into consideration. I don't think it would have been 40 miles - but it still would have added on mileage that Frodo and Sam would not have had to make. I think more of the toil of trying to get into Mordor should have been shown and the hardships they encountered.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by thranduil
I agree it might have taken longer because they were tired, but where did you get 40 miles from?

I can't see where the problem is:

They were north to Cirith Ungol.
Osgiliath is south (west) to Cirith Ungol.
If you go from where ever they were, south, and than north again, it's about 40 miles more. could be 30 actually; depends where they were exactly.

[azalea]

I finished watching the cast commentary last night. I have to say, I love Dom and Billy, they are so funny! It was a humorous contrast to go from them talking to Christopher Lee or John Rhys-Davies.
I liked how they changed the grouping of the hobbits to reflect their grouping in the film: instead of Dom, Billy, Elijah, and Sean, this time Dom and Billy are together, and Elijah and Sean are with Andy Serkis.
What is interesting is that the commentary of each actor reflected a little of their character unintentionally (except Elijah, Sean and Andy -- they kept going off on these intellectual discussions, maybe like Frodo would have done, but not Sam or Gollum!). For instance, Miranda Otto said how she fought with PJ a little about letting Eowyn have some scenes where she fights in Helm's Deep, which she ultimately lost. It was funny because it sounded like what Eowyn would really have done! There were other instances like this with other actors, it was just funny to compare them to their characters. (Oh and except for Bernard Hill, too -- he kept cursing! )
Liv, Viggo and Ian did not participate in the Commentary, and I wonder why (maybe they were off doing other projects). It was mentioned a few times how Arwen was included in Helm's Deep, but then had to be erased after they decided not to include her there (whew!).
It was nice to hear a little from Haldir (I forget the actor's name); he talked about the scene in Lorien that ended up being cut. It's too bad, I'd like to have seen it.
I have to say it was great to see Sean Bean again. That's one of my favorite scenes in the EE.
I did NOT like the more violent Gondorians kicking Gollum, etc. David Wenham said there was even more done to him, cruel stuff, that they didn't put back in (thank goodness), and that luckily they didn't have Faramir participating in the "roughing up." He said if they had, "the purists would really be up in arms."
I do think the extra scenes did a LITTLE more to explain Faramir's behavior, and it just irritates me that they weren't left in the theatrical ed.
Oh, and one more thing: I didn't realize Sean Astin is John Astin's son (I knew MacKenzie Astin was John Astin's son, but I didn't know Sean was his brother). Sean must take after his mother more. The way I figured it out was when Sean says "my dad worked with PJ and Fran for Frighteners," and I put the two together.
Which also reminds me that a lot of the cast commentary was like a mutual admiration society. They were all just praising each other a lot, which got a little old. That's why it was nice to have Dom and Billy's humor, it took everything down a notch.
I keep editing this post because I keep remembering stuff I was going to mention: Sean Astin in that same part talks about how he hadn't read LotR before getting the part and didn't even know what it was really, but he wanted to work w/ PJ because of his dad's positive experience w/ them. Since then he has read LotR three times.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

(pasted from 'favorites scenes...')
I really liked the scene with boromir & faramir and their father. It really kind of expands on Faramir and Boromir's relationship and situation, and provides a decent motivation for Faramir's change of character. It's one of the only?/few? instances of a troubled character because of difficult family situations/conflict.... in LOTR.

However, is there anything about ROTK on the TT:EE? I thought there was a preview of ROTK on the theatrical version... I just got the tt:ee today and I like it a lot. it kind of adds some personality to the film. But is everything from the theatrical version also on the extended one? A preview for ROTK? a trailer? Anything?

[azalea]

I haven't been through all of the extras, but I think there is more on this dvd than the TE. I was disappointed though that there is no RotK trailer. I'm guessing that they didn't put one on there in part because they didn't want to include any scenes that end up NOT being in the RotK TE (for instance, showing part of the Saruman stuff that has now been pulled).

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by azalea
I haven't been through all of the extras, but I think there is more on this dvd than the TE. I was disappointed though that there is no RotK trailer. I'm guessing that they didn't put one on there in part because they didn't want to include any scenes that end up NOT being in the RotK TE (for instance, showing part of the Saruman stuff that has now been pulled).

The best trailers for RotK you can find on the website. There is the regular trailer but then there are also 4 extra videos, one on Minas Tirith, Aragorn's Destiny, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and the newest one, Eowyn!

Here are the links to all

RotK Trailer: http://www.lordoftherings.net/trailer_rotk/video.html

4 Extra sneak peaks: http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/video/

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
The travel to Osgiliath added more 40 miles(roughly).

More 40 miles are more about 2 days of walking, and they were tired. Even if they got few hours after the time they did get, most of Gondor's army was destroyed, inclueding, probably, Aragorn.

But they likely had picked up time in the trip from Henneth Annun south through Ithlin, travily A Faramirs pace and with him as guide.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
And on disc three in a section called "book to screen" they, probably in response to criticism, try to justify Faramir's character alteration. It seems to generally come down to a conclusion that they know better then JRRT.

That part rather ticked me off. Especially the part that went something along the lines of "You've established that this Ring is the most evil thing ever made and that it tempts everyone and then suddenly you have a character that says 'I wouldn't pick it up if I saw it on the side of the road'. It totally destroys everything you've built up." That ticks me off because what did Frodo do at the end of FotR? (the movie, not the book) He offered the Ring to Aragorn who resisted. So they have a precedent for movie characters resisting the Ring. Even though Faramir eventually overcame his temptation in the movie and let them go, I think they should have had him do it sooner and let them go from Henneth Annûn instead of dragging them to Osgiliath.

[squinteyedsoutherner]

I found Faramir’s men kicking and beating the crap out of Gollum annoying. For me, it certainly undermined their attempt to increase my sympathy for Faramir via the extra Denethor scenes. I still give Faramir an F.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
The best trailers for RotK you can find on the website. There is the regular trailer but then there are also 4 extra videos, one on Minas Tirith, Aragorn's Destiny, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and the newest one, Eowyn!

Here are the links to all

RotK Trailer: http://www.lordoftherings.net/trailer_rotk/video.html

4 Extra sneak peaks: http://www.lordoftherings.net/legend/video/

My computer is too weak for that (and I can't get sound - very old machine, but I'm lucky to have it! )

I agree, squinty, the fact that he let them rough him up didn't add to my view of movie-Faramir's character as closer to that of the book. I think they shot it originally because they felt they needed to make it very obvious to the viewers WHY Gollum felt betrayed by Frodo. But I thought it came across fine (it's hard to say because of the fact that I'd already read the books -- but then again, I think the audience has suspended disbelief enough with Gollum that they could easily buy that he feels betrayed.) I don't know why they added it back in.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by azalea
I think they shot it originally because they felt they needed to make it very obvious to the viewers WHY Gollum felt betrayed by Frodo.

So another example of Jackson feeling the need to pump up the action and conflict and spoon feed the below the average Hollywood IQ audience. "Come on - open up - here's the little choo choo. Choo choo... choo choo..." As Jackson feeds the audience his Lord of the Rings movies. To spice it up a little - sometimes he uses the airplane coming in for a landing or a car going vroom vroom.

[Sween]

Just been watching the directors comentry its a very strange thing as he allways speaks of not loseing momentom yet he goes on about sceans that he has just invented been important. He also IMHO seems to focused to try and find the comedy of the situation. There is very little comedy in LOTR and there shouldnt be its some quite serious s*** thats going down.

Its is however clear that the Warg attack he also thinks was terriable! If any director says we should of had more time or things were not as good as they could of been basically means this was a pile of crap

As for Theoden i dont understand what he ment by taking him upon a journy. He seems to want to take every character and take them from a point of been a bit unsure and stupid and take them to a point of been a Hero. Now as for Theoden as soon as he is cured in the books he becomes who he is and who all the people of Rohan are and that is Heros its not character development its who he is! Also strange pomt about Aragorn just falling into the background in the book this could not be further from the truth if he stuck to the narative then acctually for one of the brief points of the story this is were Tolkien acctually switches to Aragorn POV