04-17-2006, 07:07 AM | #101 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Heh!
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04-17-2006, 12:00 PM | #102 | |
Elven Warrior
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Hello, UN- anybody home? |
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04-17-2006, 01:30 PM | #103 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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04-17-2006, 05:26 PM | #104 |
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Anyone can say they're a Christian ... just like anyone can say they're a Muslim. I think they should be judged by how closely they adhere to the doctrines of the faith. Hitler was clearly mentally unstable, among other things, and for him to take the ONE scene of Jesus in the temple (which Jesus Himself explains otherwise than Hitler did) and IGNORE the hundreds of cases of Jesus loving Jewish people is just another proof of his weird thinking. I would say he might be a cultural Christian (i.e., the product of a generally Christian culture), but he certainly isn't a "real" Christian, IMO.
Here's an interesting thought - how about looking at cases of "good" Muslims? When one thinks of "good" Christians, people like Mother Teresa come to mind. I wonder if Islam tends to produce people like that? My main point here is to say that there is nothing wrong with comparing things, even worldview beliefs. It seems like many people think that it's wrong to compare, or there are no differences, or both. I'm not "against" Muslims per se; what I am very strongly against are the ideas that it's wrong to compare or that there are no differences. *hang on, looking up a reference... *
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-17-2006, 05:52 PM | #105 | |||
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NOW - re the whole "it's wrong to compare" or "we're all the same in the final analysis" thoughts - let's look at, say, the group of religious people that worshipped Moloch. One of the ways they did this was heating up a metal statue of Moloch, then placing babies in the statue's arms where their flesh burned and then finally moving the arms into Moloch's mouth. I'm sure many people that did this were nice people. Should we be tolerant and say nothing against the tenets of Moloch worship?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-17-2006 at 05:55 PM. |
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04-17-2006, 06:17 PM | #106 | |
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Anyway, many, many Christian leaders, most famously Pope John Paul II of blessed memory have condemned his actions. If they say he's wrong, then I highly doubt they think he's doing God's will..
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04-17-2006, 06:20 PM | #107 | |||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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04-17-2006, 06:22 PM | #108 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-17-2006, 06:26 PM | #109 | ||
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-17-2006, 06:56 PM | #110 | |||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-17-2006, 08:47 PM | #111 | |||
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Religious Extremism is Spreading Among Muslim Youth in the U.S.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-17-2006 at 10:00 PM. |
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04-17-2006, 09:13 PM | #112 | |
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And on Hitler we'll have to agree to disagree. But there are plenty of other examples of opressive Christian rulers. But that doesn't even matter. The point was and still is is that there has been plenty of Christian violence in the past 1000 years. I'm getting the impression from Lief Erikson that Islam is inherently violent and hasn't really changed EVER and that he doesn't even think that Judaism has changed in the past 2 thousand years or so....... i guess we're a bunch of violent people too. We'd oppress the whole world if we only had the means. Oh wait - Israeli army is one of the best in the world? Jews do have the means to be violent? Heh. Of course Judaism has changed over the past couple thousand years, lol. Everything changes over time.
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04-18-2006, 01:48 AM | #113 |
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Oh Lief, Rian and Gwaimir, too - so silly pajamas! Muskrat... I say, Muskrat!
I don't even know what to say any longer in response to the things you put out here, Lief. There are so may things that you say, so many things, so many statements, which to me sound so virulently narrow-thinking, strictly christian-right wing biased, and determinedly anti-growth and anti-unity, that all I can really think of to say in response any longer is - muskrat. Wearing so silly pajamas! And Rian - thanks for the backhanded compliment! I can't wait until you yourself actually puts forward a good, convincing, solid argument about any one of your ideas. I look forward to it. Bring it on!
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 04-18-2006 at 01:58 AM. |
04-18-2006, 02:06 AM | #114 | ||
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04-18-2006, 02:09 AM | #115 | |
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 04-18-2006 at 02:11 AM. |
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04-18-2006, 02:32 AM | #116 | |
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Christianity is just as violent and hate-filled and destructive as Islam ever was, it is a different kind of violence today that we see manifesting on both sides, but trust & believe, it is there on both sides, equally as strong & pernicious and evil. Fundamentalist Christianity (and for that matter, the Vatican, too) does NOT come out smelling like roses today. It smells just as rotten, rank and evil as the worst aspects of fundamental radical Islam, whatever offshoots are responsible for inciting mob violence &/or suicide bombs - Al Quaeda, or whatever. All of it stinks. Hate and intolerance-filled Christians smell just as nasty as the agro suicidal jihad-happy Muslims, it is all the same.
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 04-18-2006 at 02:34 AM. |
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04-18-2006, 02:59 AM | #117 | |
Elf Lord
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I did respond BoP, way up there somewhere long buried, probably .
I would very much like to hear your oma's first-hand account of what she believed of the Nazis at that time, and on what evidence she believed what she did. I know some Jews were terrified of the Nazis and went into hiding. Nazi anti-Semitism and cruelty were pretty well known. Whether they knew about concentration camps and death camps is a very different question, though. I'm very curious indeed what your oma has to say on the matter, of what she believed during that time, and why. Also, is your oma a Jew? Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-18-2006, 08:39 AM | #118 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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when as a child I did childish things but when I became older, I put away childish things so too do people change from 'christening' or 'bris' or 'vows'. Even cuteness doesn't last forever. so it follows to call them that which they were is to refute what is or what was in these cases.
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04-18-2006, 02:07 PM | #119 | |||||
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"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7) 10th October, 1941, midday "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43) 14th October, 1941, midday "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... "...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... "Christianity <is> the liar.... "We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52) 19th October, 1941, night "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity." 21st October, 1941, midday "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... "The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... "Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65) 13th December, 1941, midnight "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe transubstantiation>.... "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119) 14th December, 1941, midday "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120) 9th April, 1942, dinner "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339) 27th February, 1942, midday "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie." "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>." (p 278)" Your quotes are either too old to be of any value, or indicate theism, but not necessarily Christianity. These quotes establish pretty well that he was not a Christian. He also desired to establish a nationalistic "German Church without Pope or Bible". You can't have Christianity if you cut that out. Quote:
But Rian, more or less (of course this is radically simplifying for the purpose of the discussion) believes more or less that only those faithful to the teachings of Christ are Christians, so she probably would deny that an evil person could a Christian, or vice versa. Quote:
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04-18-2006, 03:07 PM | #120 |
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Please stay on topic. I notice a lot of posts about Hitler, World War II and christianity. All of those topics can be discussed in more appropriate threads.
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