08-26-2004, 03:06 AM | #101 | |
Fëanorophobic
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1- After all his seduction and promises to the elves of Eregion, he had to give them something. After all, he wasn't called Annatar (lord of gifts) for no reason 2- He needed to be closely involved in the way all of the rings are made so that he can easily construct the Ruling Ring that can subdue the remaining 19 rings. |
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08-26-2004, 03:32 AM | #102 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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True, I didn't mean to indicate that the 3 Elves rings were evil. It was meant as an explanation on why the One Ring had power over them.
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08-26-2004, 04:17 AM | #103 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
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yeah I assume thats why Galadriel wore her ring because Sauron was not in control of the one so she didnt need to be subdued.
And yeah we have made it through 6 pages. I am so happy. this is my frist forum that has actually continued! Weeee! (giddy) Everyone keep posting! YEAH!
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08-26-2004, 10:16 AM | #104 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Though thhe Three were not inherently evil, JRRT described them in the Letters as sinful, because they thwarted the will of Eru that all mortal things wither and pass away.
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08-26-2004, 10:41 AM | #105 |
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Wasn't it rather the act of using them to slow down the effects of time that was sinful, and not the rings themselves? Elrond and Gandalf seem to have used them with other purposes.
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08-26-2004, 11:11 AM | #106 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Well Gandalf used his to kindle the spirit of fire in other hearts.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-26-2004, 02:18 PM | #107 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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08-26-2004, 03:09 PM | #108 | |
Rohirrim Warrior
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"he"?.... I thought a ring is an inanimate object. "IT was created to hold evil" sounds better. |
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08-26-2004, 04:00 PM | #109 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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08-26-2004, 04:02 PM | #110 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Not enough to be defined he (or she).
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-26-2004, 04:02 PM | #111 |
Fëanorophobic
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But I thought we established earlier that the sentience of the Ring was not inherent to it, it came from the "malice and cruelty" of Sauron poured into it. So if Sauron had chosen a ping-pong ball instead of the Ring, the Ring wouldn't be sentient, but the ping-pong ball would
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08-26-2004, 04:10 PM | #112 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Yes but is malice and cruelty either he or she even if it comes from a he or she.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-26-2004, 04:12 PM | #113 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Well, I don't think we have to go as far as to give the Ring a gender.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
08-26-2004, 04:33 PM | #114 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
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Wow I thought I ha dconceeded but I guess Ill give i another go....
The ring was an inatimate object. However the gold that made the ring was tainted with some kind of evil not inherent to the ring. So that is not the ring's fault. And therefore I would not call it evil. I would call it a victim of circumstance. ThenSauron makes trhe ring in a place of great evil. I dont see what that has to do with the ring being evil and then he places an evil spirit ino t the ring. So the evilnese embodies the ring. I would say that the ring is not evil but in fact a victim of circumstance.
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08-26-2004, 04:35 PM | #115 |
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ntw if anything had a gender ot would be the spirit embodying the ring but I do not think that senteints means that it has a gender.
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08-26-2004, 04:39 PM | #116 |
Elf Lord
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Fine - the gold was a victim of Sauron. (just kidding) The gold, before Sauron messed up with it, had no life, nor mind, and therefore cannot be either evil or good, or a victim.
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08-26-2004, 04:39 PM | #117 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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For reasons that have already been stated (I don't know how many times) the Ring was evil. It was always trying to get back to Sauron if it wasn't evil then it wouldn't have done and all deeds it was used for were turned to evil.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-26-2004, 05:02 PM | #118 |
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Thats my point. THe ring was inatimite so how could it be evil. Just cuz he placed some spirit inside of it. THe spirit is evil the inatimate thing is still neither. I never meant to szy it was good (tho I probably did ) How can some thing be evil it has no mind and you cant give it a mind. You can however put something evil into a inatimait object but does that make the ring evil. THat is the discussion and I personally say no. The power and all the things it did were evil but the inatimate object wasnt evil.
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08-26-2004, 05:45 PM | #119 | |
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08-26-2004, 05:50 PM | #120 |
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but the NAzgul are evil because they are not just objects that sudddenly got taken over by a hostile mind. They are evil but the ring is not because it has no mind and never had one. The ring is just a place holder fo r the evil.
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