02-18-2009, 03:51 PM | #101 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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More on times...
A piece of bad (?) news: in the "Long-expected party" the times are GMT without extra hour:
Quote:
The sunset for September 22 2009 is 5:59PM without BST The sunset for September 12 2009 is 6:22PM without BST Now in the draft written around 1938, before the application of BDST, the time of firewoks was 6 PM, later it was corrected to 6.30. I guess this change was due to the fact that Tolkien had calculated the difference between Shire calendar and normal calendar. Uh-oh... |
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02-18-2009, 05:12 PM | #102 |
Salt Miner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: gone to Far Harad
Posts: 987
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The calculations in the current rough time-line are for London, England, 84 days after Mid-Year’s Day (solstice). That matches the date in Shire Reckoning, 29 “September” (Halimath), which corresponds to 19 September in the Gregorian Calendar. I used sunset for 1941, but the length of twilight for 2009 because I have not yet found twilight hours for 1941. The error introduced must be small (minutes), but I cannot quantify it right now.
It looks as if Tolkien first set the time for Bilbo’s birthday party using the Gregorian Calendar, and then switched to his own Shire Reckoning. It also appears that he intended to set all the times in standard time. He moved the time back an hour for the Birthday Party to standard time; it looks as if he just forgot the extra hour from BDST for Bree. If that’s the situation – that he correctly adjusted for British Summer Time by removing the extra hour, but incorrectly adjusted for British Double Summer Time by removing only one hour instead of two – I think this may be a widespread error in Lord of the Rings. At any rate, it has possibilities for further exploration, and for scholars, it has to be a big deal if it’s true. And since I think this is a uniquely new observation, I believe we can safely say, You read it first here at Entmoot. Congratulations to you, Gordis, and to The Dread Pirate Roberts. -|-If Tolkien forgot to remove the second, extra hour from BDST, but BDST ended after the war, I wonder if there are times Tolkien intended to be standard times in, say, The Return of the King that once again do not have the extra hour, since they were written in the late 1940s and early 1950s? Anyone up for starting a thread for Tolkien Time? We might find there is Tolkien Standard Time at the beginning and end of The Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien Daylight Time in the middle with the extra hour from BDST carried over into it. Last edited by Alcuin : 02-18-2009 at 05:21 PM. |
02-18-2009, 05:22 PM | #103 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Well, Alcuin - I think your scheme is as good as it may be given the evidence we have.
Personally I only disagree on the number of nazgul during Merry's capture: I think there was but one in Bree at the moment. Apart from what I have said earlier, I have found the draft version in HOME 7: Quote:
But anyway, the exact number of the Black riders by Ferny's doesn't affect the timeline at all. Well done, Alcuin! |
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02-18-2009, 07:36 PM | #104 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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