01-19-2007, 12:26 PM | #101 | ||
Elf Lord
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At present, the Administration doesn't think that communicating with Iran is a good move. I know that there was a different panel in our government that recommended it, though. So clearly there's disagreement on policy at the top. I think negotiation with Iran would be great, but, as the Administration has repeatedly stated, it cannot be at the price of letting Iran develop its nuclear program. So if Iran is only willing to make a deal on Iraq on condition that we allow their nuclear program to proceed, I don't feel that diplomacy would be at all helpful an option in that situation.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 01-19-2007 at 12:56 PM. |
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01-19-2007, 12:31 PM | #102 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Good morning to you too captain.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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01-24-2007, 10:50 AM | #103 |
Elven Warrior
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I heard tonight in President Bush's state of the union that the war's ging fine, all he needs is more troops. Oh and terrorists are against freedom. So:
Does throwing more troops at the problem solve it? Did that work in Vietnam? and: Are terrorists against "freedom"? note: Firstly, I object to the use of “freedom” as a possessive noun, it suggests that the US are only ones who can say who is for freedom and who is against freedom. It’s the classic Bush: “Your either with us or against us…” God that’s arrogant. And secondly, and more importantly, Bush said that "terrorists are only interested in stopping other people's freedom" (sic). I contend, regardless of their methods, terrorists have specific aims, and one of those aims most certainly is the pursuit of freedom for their own people, be they oppressed or no. "Freedom", or lack thereof, is in the eye of the beholder.
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01-24-2007, 11:47 AM | #104 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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The problem is that you guys only care about what Bush says, not what he means...
...and I think there's a real difference between the two. First of all, Bush is not Aristotle. Secondly, your thoughts about the use of the word "freedom" are not much help, and if I was president and you'd told me that, I'd tell you to stop reading so many dictionaries. Politics is not a cold science. I doubt many politicians take the time to read "word of the day". Terrorists may not be "against" freedom, but they sure as heck are trying to stifle our efforts in Iraq. It sure doesn't tell you that they're for freedom either, but the real point, and the point I think Bush always makes in a very roundabout way, is that "those guys are killing us (troops) and Iraqis, so we kill them in return." We're trying to help the Iraqis, the insurgents are preventing us, and if they somehow think they're "fighting for freedom" thats fine, but that's not the point.
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01-24-2007, 12:12 PM | #105 | ||||
Elven Warrior
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And finally: You Yanks are gonna love this...: Were the American "rebels" terrorists when they objected to the British version of freedomin the 1700's? Discuss, my touchy American friends
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01-24-2007, 01:55 PM | #106 | |||||||||
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And let me ask you this Fenir, exactly how is it "freedom fighting" to blow people up, the same people that they supposedly fight for? The answer is that it isn't freedom fighting whatever else it is, and you can call it whatever you want really... And if any of us thinks we've lost too many troops-we have, but we have not lost even a quarter of what the Iraqis have lost. ("Finally he's comin' around!") And you know why? It's not because our guys have been over there mowing everyone down, it's because the insurgents don't SEEM to care who they kill. I'd venture to say that if you took out the sectarian violence factor, that alone would give us far fewer news stories about the bombs blowing in Baghdad. It wouldn't stop everything, I'm not saying that. Quote:
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01-25-2007, 09:58 PM | #107 | |
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01-25-2007, 10:08 PM | #108 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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01-26-2007, 10:44 AM | #109 | |
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01-27-2007, 05:31 PM | #110 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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01-28-2007, 05:57 AM | #111 | ||
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What one aims for is usually not what one gets. |
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01-29-2007, 03:20 AM | #112 | ||
Elf Lord
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I agree with you that some of the terrorist groups want the freedom of their people. That is particularly true in the Palestinian territories. It is probably also true of some of the insurgent groups in Iraq. In other places, though, it is not true. The Taliban is an excellent example of this. So was the UIC, which didn't allow the common people any role in the government and was definitely a totalitarian force- as were the warlords too, of course. But many Islamic governments do not give the people any representation in the government, or much liberty at all. Most of them really aren't interested in freedom for the common man. One can't lump all terrorists into one group. Though Islamic terrorists have a similar ideology to one another in effect, there is diversity between different groups too, in terms of objectives. One can't characterize them all as freedom fighters or as totalitarian lumps. Either generalization about them is going to be flawed.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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01-29-2007, 11:44 PM | #113 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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02-01-2007, 07:07 PM | #114 | ||
Elf Lord
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I don't have any time, really, but I'd like to bring up a news story that has recently come out, in response to an earlier part of conversation.
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So the general who was "the top US commander in Iraq for the last two years" has been advising President Bush that the old plan was working, and he still thinks it is working. Other generals apparently disagreed with him, but he was the top general, the one working with the Administration and whose opinion they were most likely to listen to. So if people here are going to blame any perceived failure in Iraq on anyone, it would be more fair not to place it on the Administration. President Bush repeatedly said that if the generals on the field told him that they needed more troops, he'd send them more troops. And the top US commander in Iraq never did that. It's logical that the Administration would be more likely to listen to the top general than lower ranking generals.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-01-2007, 07:21 PM | #115 |
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Oh come on, Lief. Stop saying you don't have time... we all know you couldn't stop debating if you had your jaw wired shut and your fingers in a cast.
You'd learn to type with your toes . |
02-02-2007, 01:20 AM | #116 | |
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As far as top general's opinions go, I suggest reading up a bit on William Westmoreland.
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02-02-2007, 04:50 AM | #117 |
Elf Lord
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Already the history is being rewritten, except this time to fit the loser.
Right from the start of the Iraq war there have been mililtary types voicing their concerns. These have got louder and louder. It's a matter of record that the Pentagon overruled the military on many occasions. It is unprecedented in my lifetime for so many military and ex-military to question to conduct of a war whilst it is still going on. And the spectacle of Bush trying to delegate the blame to the generals ("hey, tell me what ideas you got") is disgusting. |
02-02-2007, 02:42 PM | #118 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-02-2007, 02:58 PM | #119 | |
Elf Lord
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he's fooling no one - and Lief's toes are faster than clint eastwood, already! |
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02-02-2007, 03:13 PM | #120 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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I think Lief writes his gurangatuan posts offline, and then he ZAPS us with 'em. More shock value
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