08-29-2003, 11:56 AM | #101 | |
Elf Lord
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As far as I know, there are NO countries that are totally free, including the United States. Furthermore, I don't understand the position that books are not banned in the US. It is my belief that they are. I've excerpted the following from a site on banned books http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html "Ulysses by James Joyce was recently selected by the Modern Library as the best novel of the 20th century, and has received wide praise from other literature scholars, including those who have defended online censorship. (Carnegie Mellon English professor and vice-provost Erwin Steinberg, who praised the book in 1994, also defended CMU's declaration that year to delete alt.sex and some 80 other newsgroups, claiming they were legally obligated to do so.) Ulysses was barred from the United States as obscene for 15 years, and was seized by U.S Postal Authorities in 1918 and 1930. The lifting of the ban in 1933 came only after advocates fought for the right to publish the book. In 1930, U.S. Customs seized Harvard-bound copies of Candide, Voltaire's critically hailed satire, claiming obscenity. Two Harvard professors defended the work, and it was later admitted in a different edition. In 1944, the US Post Office demanded the omission of Candide from a mailed Concord Books catalog. " and more recently: "An illustrated edition of "Little Red Riding Hood" was banned in two California school districts in 1989. Following the Little Red-Cap story from Grimm's Fairy Tales, the book shows the heroine taking food and wine to her grandmother. The school districts cited concerns about the use of alcohol in the story. " There are good and bad qualities in every country. The US is not perfect, but it's not a terrible place to live. I would not say I'm proud of it: 40 million people with no health insurance, miserly support for the arts due to disdain at worst and disinterest at best, a consumer culture caught up in accumulating items they don't need, and a citizenry that is often arrogant with respect to other countries and their worth. On the other hand, there is a history of achievement and exploration if not tolerance. Of course, rampant materialism is not exclusively an American characteristic, nor is intolerance. The problem with "pride" and "patriotism" is it so often grows into a "I'm better than ________" attitude. Hardly conducive to peaceful coexistance with other cultures.
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08-29-2003, 11:57 AM | #102 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Which article in the Portugal Constition is it guaranteed in?
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08-29-2003, 11:58 AM | #103 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Then too the political correctness in this country has had "Huckleberry Finn" removed from many libraries along with "Tom Sawyer" and other classics to future readers loss.
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08-29-2003, 12:01 PM | #104 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Words to ponder.
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; The inherent virture of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill
I'd rather be here in the USA with all of our problems then "there" and miss all of our joy.
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08-29-2003, 12:11 PM | #105 | |
Elf Lord
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Social Rights and Duties Artº63 1. Everyone has the right to social security. The other issues (posted before) I'll answer later
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08-29-2003, 12:23 PM | #106 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - both events you sited by the federal government took place in the 1930's. The Federal Government can ban things based on obscenity laws - which I am against. The question arises - "whose standard do you use to detemine obscenity". As far as I'm concerned - as long as no minors are being used and no one is getting harmed in the process - it's not the goverments business. Nightline a couple of days ago had about Extreme Video. The produce sex videos depicting rape and murder. It is pretty gross - but as long as the the 'actors" aren't being harmed - whose business is it? continued...
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08-29-2003, 12:26 PM | #107 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for tolerance - the US is far more tolerant than 99.9% of the countries on earth. Everyone points at how the US treated the Indians but ignore how the Europeans treated them before America was founded as a country or how Canada has treated it's indian population. My friend, Trish, her grandfather used to be beat in Canada for speaking Mohawk. Australia doesn't have a very good record with it's aboriginal people. Europe was the one that brought slavery to America's shores. Germany gave us Hitler, Italy brought Mussellini, Russia gave the world Stalin. The US has been more than tolerant compared to other countries. What happned to the blacks in the south was an outrage during the 60's - but things have changed and now it is time to move into the 21st century and finally put that behind us - along with the reverse discrimination known as affirmative action. Attitudes take time to change and you can't say if you lived during the 1700's or the 1960's if you would have treated blacks any differently than the way they were treated. We base our opinions on the times and places we live. Quote:
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08-29-2003, 12:26 PM | #108 | |
Elf Lord
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Just as up until Brown vs Board of Education (1954) they ruled that the Constitution protected the rights of states to keep black children out of white classrooms. Now, if it is held to be permissible for the various states to make laws infringing on the liberty and equality of individuals, then this permission is given by the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. So the Constitution says that the states have the right to violate an individual as long as the form of that violation is not specifically forbidden at the federal level. So I won't oppress you, but I'll give authorization to someone else to.
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08-29-2003, 12:36 PM | #109 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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By taking the texas case to the supreme court - the anti-sodomy laws were overturned. You may not have liked the laws like I didn't - but there was an outlet to get them changed.
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08-29-2003, 12:40 PM | #110 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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08-29-2003, 12:45 PM | #111 | ||
Elf Lord
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BTW the "Bill of No Rights" was not written by Mitchell Kaye, as he freely acknowledges. He just liked it and posted it, and a lot of people attributed it to him.
It was written by Lewis Napper, a Libertarian, and has been altered without acknowledgment. This is the original, which is what Rep. Kaye posted: Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note that Article X in the version cited about the primacy of English has been simply fabricated- it's not the kind of thing most libertarians would say But the interesting part is Article VIII which has been chucked down the memory hole- I wonder why? Quote:
(Please note I'm not accusing either jd or his source of changing the original- the altered version is widely cited)
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 08-29-2003 at 12:49 PM. |
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08-29-2003, 12:53 PM | #112 |
Elf Lord
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08-29-2003, 01:30 PM | #113 |
Elf Lord
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Wrong, social security encompass healthcare, among other things, that is why I choose it instead of the more limited, but to the point, Artº64
1.Everyone has the right to health protection and the duty to protect it and promote it.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
08-29-2003, 02:00 PM | #114 | ||||
Elf Lord
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Nope, you have the right to state your opinions; you don’t have the right to trespass into someone private domain. Quote:
I’m aware of the Diana issue, (in a generic way, I’m not sure about what tapes you are talking about). Here you do not have the right to trespass into someone’s private life, unless the fact revealed is of public relevance. For instance, if a minister was having an affair, that would not be considered a matter of the public domain, unless if somehow it would affect the state, or if, said minister publicly spoke against adultery as part of his political campaign, then, the duplicity of statement vs. conduct would make it a public affair. Quote:
You see, that is simply a cultural perspective. Your culture sees it as a matter of state, in most of continental Europe it is not seen so. Unless it does affect the state (to use the Clinton example. If he was a local politician, and had said nothing, then the issue would be strictly his, of his wife, and the third person. At the moment that he himself bring it up, especially in court, t is no longer so). It is well known that conjugal fidelity is not a highly rated political attribute among continental politicians, simply because we make a distinction between private and public life. Quote:
So do we, that is why we do not consider legitimate to intrude into a politician (or any other person) personal life. Distinction of their public and private role.
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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08-29-2003, 02:06 PM | #115 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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08-29-2003, 02:24 PM | #116 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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John F Kennedy also had many affairs - but as far as I know - none of them took place in the Oval Office and none of them required him to put Congressmen on hold or put the government on the back burner while he got some. Right now they are dragging Arnold Swarzenneggar through the mud because supposed when he first came out to the US - he had group sex at the gym. He had also at one point in time said that he looked at women as sex objects. He later said in an interview that his feelings on sex have changed.
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08-29-2003, 02:28 PM | #117 | |||||
The Elvish Temptress
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Of course we cannot take them their whole freedom. There have to be a breaking of laws and evidence for it. Quote:
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But maybe they have another relation to National Socialism because it was never a that important issue for them than it was for us. They were not that concerned about that whole topic as much as we are and therefore the awareness is maybe not that big. That is no affront or dispraise, just a thought of me.
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08-29-2003, 02:30 PM | #118 | |||
The Elvish Temptress
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And we do have a Communists party, it excists, but hardly anybody votes for them. I only agree with two parties here in Austria, but I also don't think that the others should be forbidden. Of course not. We have a democracy. The government needs someone who controlls them. Plus not everybody can have the same opinion. So there is actually freedom. But you don't understand that it is not really a reduction of freedom to forbid National Socialism, it is a system to prevent crime and to keep the freedom of foreigners. Quote:
Yah, we also have this law because right wing radicalism is still an issue here and will always be. I can admit that. (I think you should argue about that topic with someone who really knows everything about the constitution ... I am just learning it, I'm no expert, sorry). Ah, there comes another thing to my mind. It could be that we have these laws because of the contract we had to sign at the end of the war. Could be. At any rate this is the reason why we are eg not allowed to go to war. Quote:
You can't take half of the money of a person who only earns 1,000 Euro a month. I know that the highest taxes for the salary are about 50 %. I know that's a lot. But you have to earn a lot to have to pay these high taxes (health insurance, pension, unemployment, income tax .....). I know about that system because I have learned it in school. Actually I should be able to charge the taxes for every salary. Another freedom we have is that we are able to go to every school, every university we want to go. Especially Universities. You don't have to pay a fee to get into it. And they all have the same good standart. Education is no question of money here. And that's freedom for me. To do what I want. To get the best education, even if my parents are not rich, even if I'm not Einstein. ... sorry, was to long for one message (I haven't had a political discussion for a long time, peh)
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08-29-2003, 03:04 PM | #119 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for lower level education - k - 12th - republicans support the use of vouchers that allow parents to choose where they want their children to go to school. I am for that. If someone doesn't like the school that their child would be forced to go to - they should be able to take their share of their money and put their child in the school they want (if it's a private school - then they have to pay the difference). It creates competition within the schools and forces the bad schools to either shape up or close down. Ironically - the democrats are against vouchers which will allow inner city parents to send their children to better schools.
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08-29-2003, 03:16 PM | #120 | |||
Elf Lord
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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