10-30-2003, 01:02 PM | #101 | |
Elf Lord
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Jackson made changes to the story. But some of the "changes" you've shown outrage over are every bit as legitimate as your perspective is. As Jack Nicholson would say: "You can't handle the truth." |
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10-30-2003, 01:04 PM | #102 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-30-2003, 01:05 PM | #103 |
Elven Warrior
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I pasted Tolkien quotes from my previous post into my current post, nothing new. Nice try though
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10-30-2003, 01:06 PM | #104 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-30-2003 at 01:08 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 01:08 PM | #105 | |
Elf Lord
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pointing to a Tolkien letter proves absolutely nothing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I rest my case with this poster. |
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10-30-2003, 01:10 PM | #106 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-30-2003 at 01:11 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 01:10 PM | #107 |
Elven Warrior
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didn't I just post that I added my old quotes back in?
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10-30-2003, 01:20 PM | #108 |
Elven Warrior
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squintyeyedsoutherner-would you please provide the Letter number for your quotes re: hypnosis? I'm interested in seeing the full context and comparing with comments made in TTT regarding Saruman's voice. BB claims that the quotes are not applicable to Theoden, and you claim they are. I'd like to make up my own mind. Thanks
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10-30-2003, 01:33 PM | #109 | |
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"....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5) |
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10-30-2003, 01:35 PM | #110 | |
Elven Warrior
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The trance/hypnosis quotes are from letter #210, it is Tolkien's response to a screenplay that is very similar to the films Jackson made. Tolkien is rather furious.
The Gandalf the white not using his "power" quotes are from letter #156. A very long but interesting explanation of many of the book's themes etc. Quote:
Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 10-30-2003 at 10:37 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 01:39 PM | #111 |
Elven Warrior
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Thanks, it's been a while since i read those Letters, and I didn't want to waste a bunch of time searching.
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Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again. |
10-30-2003, 02:00 PM | #112 | |
Elf Lord
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For those who don't have the "Letters"
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Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin : 10-30-2003 at 02:07 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 02:20 PM | #113 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Maybe this thread should be titled "Learning from Tolkien."
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
10-30-2003, 02:36 PM | #114 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Too many of Jackson's changes go COMPLETELY against Tolkien and the style and heart of Lord of the Rings. Mithrandir pointed out some things in the "If Jackson Made the Silmarillion Movie" thread.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-30-2003 at 02:39 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 02:37 PM | #115 |
Elf Lord
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If a theme of this thread is "were PJ interpretations positive or negative?' then why not acknowlege that there are instances of both.
One I now view as generally necessary and positive is the expanded Arwen role. The first time i read LOTR I was totally surprised when she showed up at the end. There are hints in the book, but you have to look hard for them. Oh, one change PJ should not have made, when they get to the ford instead of the made-up line "if you want him, come and claim him" just have Frodo come to for a bit , wave the sword, and say "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" Gives Frodo more character, and Arwen can still replace Elrond's action in summoning the river. A poor change was the motivation of the Ents to attack Isengard in the movie. Just to give a hobbit a line they make Treebeard out to be virtually senile, having no idea of Saruman's actions (even after meeting Gandalf). I would think the essence of the book version, a deliberate action of the Entmoot to attack, would have been better, just as much for movie viewers who are non-book readers as others. 'Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door!
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10-30-2003, 02:43 PM | #116 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-30-2003 at 02:58 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 03:56 PM | #117 | ||
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10-30-2003, 03:56 PM | #118 | |
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*sigh*
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10-30-2003, 11:26 PM | #119 | |
Elf Lord
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In my opinion, Tolkien is clearly speaking to Saruman's ability to sway an audience (as described in the books). However, in the case of Theoden, Tolkien never described Saruman coming directly into contact with the King causing his decline. The king's advisor is Wormtongue, not Saruman. When you take these facts into consideration and combine them with Tolkien's actual description of Theoden's "awakening" in TTT, it is every bit as reasonable to assume possession as it is to assume otherwise. Last edited by Black Breathalizer : 10-30-2003 at 11:28 PM. |
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10-30-2003, 11:45 PM | #120 | |
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