06-03-2002, 03:43 PM | #101 |
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How can purposely abandoning your kin on the grinding ice AND burning the ships afterwards.
Do you know how long he left them to tread to ME? 27 YEARS on the grinding ice. That was intentional NOT a momentary lapse of reason.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-03-2002, 04:24 PM | #102 |
Elf Lord
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Yes. I think having to go out of the way just to extend excuses to Feanor for his behavior sort of confirms the fact that he's a villian.
You don't really need contorted ethics to excuse people who aren't villians.
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06-03-2002, 05:41 PM | #103 |
the Shrike
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No. He wasn't irredeemably evil. For a start, his motives were completely different from Hitler and Morgoth. He was not after domination, nor subjucation: he was filfulling that damned oath of his.
Yes, the kin-slaying and the burning of the ships was a horrid act, BUT at that point it was due to an irrationality, not an inherent evil-ness. Remember that his mother put all that power into him, and then he put all that power into the silmarils. Somewhere in that transaction, something went horribly wrong, and rendered him a few sandwiches short of a picnic. This doesn't make him evil. Or even villainous.
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06-03-2002, 06:49 PM | #104 | ||
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RE: feanor a villian
Quote:
Moving on, I don't think that saying 'Feanor let his pride take over' is very appropriate. That would suggest that Feanor knew that he had no chance of reclaiming the silmarils and destroying Morgoth, and that he carried on regardless because of his pride. That simply wasn't the case, Feanor fully believed he could do these things, it wasn't untill he lay dying staring at the slopes of Thangorodrim that he realised he wasn't invincible. Quote:
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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06-03-2002, 07:04 PM | #105 | |
the Shrike
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Re: RE: feanor a villian
Quote:
However, she certainly did something different, because she crawled off and died from it. This coming from a woman that was supposedly of an immortal race.
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06-03-2002, 08:37 PM | #106 |
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Alright, he did not let his pride take over, but he did not stop to think rationally and therefore believed in his cause, and believed he could reclaim the Silmarils. Which is actully another way of saying he was overprideful.
Since when does pride alone make a villain? He made mistakes, he did not believe Fingolfin would attempt to cross the grinding ice, the kinslaying was. . .okay, that part was truly horrible, but he was not stopping to think. On the other hand, Morgoth, and Hitler, thought out their plans. They knew what they were doing. Feanor never once planned on slaying the Teleri.
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06-03-2002, 09:13 PM | #107 | |
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RE: feanor a villian
Quote:
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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06-03-2002, 09:20 PM | #108 |
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she chose to leave the world. she chose to die.
she could have found healing in Lorien but she chose not to.
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06-03-2002, 09:28 PM | #109 | |
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Quote:
So in conclusion, I'd say he was certainly rash (to the extreme) and over-confident in his abilities, but not neccessarily prideful.
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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06-03-2002, 09:33 PM | #110 |
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True, he did not have much competition for 'greatest' in many things. You are right, he was never tested to the extent of his abilities (until he met the balrogs. . .) but would that not be a source of pride?
Anyway, yes, he was extremely rash and over-confident. Does that make him a villain? I think not.
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06-03-2002, 09:37 PM | #111 |
Elven Warrior
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RE: feanor a villian
I never said I thought he was a villain
I'll certainly get back to with my oppinion on that, once I've gathered my thoughts
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
06-03-2002, 09:41 PM | #112 | |
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Re: RE: feanor a villian
Quote:
I await your opinion
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06-03-2002, 09:55 PM | #113 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Like I said before, I think a good term for Feanor is the "twisted good". To describe and debate his virtues, along with his draw backs could be quite a challenge. afro-elf, I think you are being a bit hard on the character, but there are many things to consider with this one. A little research might go along way for both pro and con and the in-between.
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06-03-2002, 10:04 PM | #114 |
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"Twisted good." It works, I think, in his case
*goes to finish Sil. and read it again, due to SGH's suggestion about research*
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06-04-2002, 02:15 AM | #115 |
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If Feanor was a leader of a nation today, I think that he would be guilty by the world court.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-04-2002, 02:17 AM | #116 | |
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Quote:
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06-04-2002, 02:18 AM | #117 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
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06-04-2002, 02:19 AM | #118 | |
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Quote:
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06-04-2002, 02:21 AM | #119 |
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I'm him not his nation. Do you consider Milosovietch (sp?) to a god guy?
My only point being here is that Feanor was not a GOOD guy. That's all I've been trying to say.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-04-2002, 02:26 AM | #120 |
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Well, Feanor wasn't perfect, that's for sure. But I wouldn't condemn him to the label of 'villain,' for his mistakes. No one is without mistakes, he just made too many of them. That doesn't mean he was not good at heart.
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