03-30-2007, 05:12 PM | #101 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 03-30-2007 at 05:20 PM. |
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03-30-2007, 05:30 PM | #102 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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That's the "unprovable" aspect.
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And really, the fact that some Christians go from "God is Love" to "Dinosaurs never existed", and that some agnostics go from "My understanding of reality doesn't require God." to "Therefore, people who believe in God are deluded" makes the whole conversation much more difficult. |
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03-30-2007, 06:11 PM | #103 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I certainly know that assumptions are critically important. If the assumption is wrong, then conclusions based on that assumption are invalid (they may be correct accidentally, but that's another thing! ) That's why I try to point assumptions out when people make them, because many people don't even realize they're making assumptions!!! Their deductions may be flawless, but if the underlying assumption is wrong ... well, sorry, you can't claim the deductions are right. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 03-30-2007 at 06:13 PM. |
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03-30-2007, 06:44 PM | #104 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Too many variables.
You might be able to get an idea of some conscious worldview beliefs that someone holds. But I just can't imagine how you'd dig out the details to get even a majority of the things that make that up. You can be married for 20 years and still be surprised, kwim?
So any model you build will be, of necessity, flawed. As you say, flawed models may produce good conclusions. That might be due to direct revelation, who knows? Or it might be pure dumb luck. But as for a way to evaluate the accuracy of someone else's perceptions...coin toss would be faster. |
03-30-2007, 08:14 PM | #105 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Faster, yes; but speed isn't everything If you prefer to toss a coin, that's your choice Personally, I prefer thinking, as much as is possible according to whatever information is available, when it comes to something as important as a decision about what you will base your life on. We may not have ALL the information, but SOME is better than none. I'd rather think on the information I do have than toss a coin.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 03-30-2007 at 08:34 PM. |
03-30-2007, 08:21 PM | #106 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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(TOTALLY behind the times, just wanted to toss that out there )
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-30-2007, 10:04 PM | #107 | |
Elf Lord
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Are we discussing your own world view?
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I thought we were discussing your method of evaluating someone else's. |
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04-02-2007, 09:35 AM | #108 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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This agnostic won't be acknowledging that. Of course, I'll probably will be standing before the other guy anyway.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-02-2007, 11:13 AM | #109 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-02-2007 at 11:15 AM. |
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04-02-2007, 12:42 PM | #110 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-02-2007, 01:09 PM | #111 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-02-2007, 02:25 PM | #112 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-02-2007, 03:07 PM | #113 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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We'll see. I'll give him a chance for a good explanation.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-02-2007, 04:26 PM | #114 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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No, you're no White Witch I said all of us have some WW in us. I know I do, and I suspect that you have just a teensy bit yourself!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-02-2007, 04:40 PM | #115 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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I think I have more Puddleglum.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
04-02-2007, 05:25 PM | #116 | |||
Elf Lord
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Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Prepare for a response that may strongly indicate that I'm touchy! From the same post: Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-02-2007 at 05:31 PM. |
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04-02-2007, 05:42 PM | #117 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I don't think brownie meant that line to be against you, Lief - I took it as since you claim faulty judgement, etc. is involved, then he is unable to argue in a valid way. Something like that.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-02-2007, 05:58 PM | #118 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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In the same way, and I'm positive that this is what C.S. Lewis meant when he spoke through Puddleglum's mouth in the climax of "The Silver Chair," if one thinks that the real world consists of matter, relativity (which means absolute ignorance, for one can't be sure of anything at all and there are no absolutes, and one also can't know if one is doing good or evil in the world, is harming others or helping them), meaninglessness (which means buying a friend a pair of glasses is just as moral as tearing his eyes out, since without meaning, nothing matters, though all is matter) and pointless misery punctuated by temporary pleasure and bound to end with nonexistence and complete insignificance, then one is still only believing in that dark world one embraces and cannot know that it is all that is. You do not know that there aren't moral absolutes, that the Holy Spirit does not speak to God's followers as their Counselor and reveal the truth to them, that righteousness, peace, purity and joy cannot be found in Jesus Christ. You do not know that God is not alive and powerfully, amazingly active in the world. You do not accept the evidence that he is alive or active in the world either, but this is irrelevant to my point. My point here is that if one knows one's own conception of reality is deeply flawed and darkened, and does not know that there is no higher reality, but rather merely believes that there is no higher reality, then the most logical and good course of action is to seek to find the better world, even if it doesn't exist, because it might exist. It is better to seek a higher world than to, in blind faith, take the underground for the only reality that exists.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-02-2007, 06:00 PM | #119 |
Elf Lord
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*Scrambles with the contents of this post.*
*Lief eats a piece of pie.* Yum! My compliments to the chef (my own imagination).
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-02-2007 at 06:06 PM. |
04-02-2007, 06:05 PM | #120 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
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__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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