Why you believe what you believe I

[inked]

brownjenkins,

You keep saying there is no absolute but you clearly judge societal actions by a standard which you do treat as absolute: your assessment of the relative benefit of the goals of the society. Hitler and his cronies had goals for Germany, but you say those were "bad"; Britain, France, and Spain had goals for North America; Amerindians had goals as well. You are clearly applying your standard to different cultures and judging them and ranking them. WHY is what brownjenkins says correct, as say opposed to inked or Hitler or Victoria or Chief X ?

[EarthBound]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

"self-defense" is completely relative... so, effectively, "it is okay to kill if in self-defense" is also relative... there is no absolute

I think most everyone reads it as Thou shall not Murder, but you make a good point.

I agree about the intergration of NA's to a point. Intergration, in truth was used to wipe them of their hertiage and beliefs (for a more docile and "easier-managed" NA).

Note: A large part of my family is Apache (only 2 generaions from FBI)

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by inked

brownjenkins,

You keep saying there is no absolute but you clearly judge societal actions by a standard which you do treat as absolute: your assessment of the relative benefit of the goals of the society. Hitler and his cronies had goals for Germany, but you say those were "bad"; Britain, France, and Spain had goals for North America; Amerindians had goals as well. You are clearly applying your standard to different cultures and judging them and ranking them. WHY is what brownjenkins says correct, as say opposed to inked or Hitler or Victoria or Chief X ?

i'm observing what i see in the world and theorizing based upon it, not "judging"... unlike those who insist upon "absolutes", i am open to discussion... i've asked a few times for alternative explanations to why people act as they do... i.e. name some of these "absolutes"... but have yet to be given an example

in the end it's about survival... not a question of good or bad or absolutes... to me, the proof of what was "bad" (which i put in quotes because it is a relative term) is what has not survived the test of time... autocracy, prejudice, genocide, intolerance... while they certainly still exist today, they are no where near as pervasive as they once were... and i think as time goes by they will be even less so

why?

because, ultimately, those kind of practices are self-defeating to those who practice them... especially as the world progresses to become more of a single society due to changes in travel and communication

is this absolute? maybe, maybe not... i do not know enough about life, the universe and everything to claim that i'm absolutely correct on any given point... do you?

if you look back a few pages, you may remember that i said that even if there are absolutes in this universe, we have no way of knowing what they are... so, once again, it comes down to the individual and the society he/she lives in

[Rían]

Browns, thanks again for your patience in staying in the chair so long while I got my questions together. I'd like to change tack a bit and go back to one of the very first subjects I questioned you on, and see if I can get a more detailed answer, then I think I'll be just about done with my questions (finally!)

Can you tell me (in more than one sentence - you tend to be a bit terse!) what things really touch your heart, both in a good way and a bad/sad way? What do you feel when you look up at the stars at night, or come unexpectedly upon a lovely flower, or wake up at night and see your wife asleep next to your side, or go down the hall and watch your kids asleep? What do you feel when your kids come home and tell you about what a bully did to them? What does the scent of your wife's hair do to you? What sports teams do you root for, and why? What social injustice do you abhor, if any? What do you wish for the world? Do you ever have a feeling in your heart that something beautiful is gone from this world? Do you ever have a feeling in your heart, when winter is loosening its grip on the world and the first signs of spring are in the air and on the trees, that something beautiful is coming?

What makes you, you?

[Lizra]

For some reason...I find this amusing....Carry on though!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

can i answer, Ri?
what makes me?
a complex arrangement of amino acids, and deoxyribonucleic acid
in addition to the basic four, Nitrogen, Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen

[Rían]

No, Chrys, that's not "you" ... I don't enjoy talking with "a complex arrangement of amino acids, and deoxyribonucleic acid in addition to the basic four, Nitrogen, Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen"; I enjoy talking with YOU

Liz - You paint pictures like you do, and you don't understand what I'm saying?

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

you tend to be a bit terse!

am not!

what things really touch your heart, both in a good way and a bad/sad way?

stories

What do you feel when you look up at the stars at night,

atm, cold

or come unexpectedly upon a lovely flower,

in january!?!?

or wake up at night and see your wife asleep next to your side,

will she wake up if i grab the blanket

or go down the hall and watch your kids asleep?

finally!!!

What do you feel when your kids come home and tell you about what a bully did to them?

strangely enough... this has not happened to any of them yet

What does the scent of your wife's hair do to you?

can't get into that, pg-13 thing

What sports teams do you root for, and why?

sox, pats, celtics, bruins... 'cause i live near boston

What social injustice do you abhor, if any?

factionalizing.... whether by race, nationality or religion... people are people with the same abilities to be good, bad or indifferent, irregardless of their situation

What do you wish for the world?

for people to eventually realize that we are all in this together and to tolerate each other's differences unless they directly effect us in a negative way

Do you ever have a feeling in your heart that something beautiful is gone from this world?

no, when all is said and done... i think we will slowly continue to get closer and closer to what i mentioned above... irregardless of setbacks along the way

Do you ever have a feeling in your heart, when winter is loosening its grip on the world and the first signs of spring are in the air and on the trees, that something beautiful is coming?

well, my birthday is at the end of February... so it works out that way sometimes

What makes you, you?

my social security number

my lifetime of experiences... the people i've known, will know and the places i've been and will be... whether "free will" is a real thing or not... we are all very much a product of our environment

[Rían]

Tom, do you like me?

(don't worry; I mean as a friend )

[Nurvingiel]

Ooh! I want to answer too!

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

What makes you, you?

It all started with my parents... we don't need to go there, but suffice to say that they gave me genes and the beginning of a personality.

Then I grew up in my fair hometown, and had many interesting experiences, saw some beautiful sights, tried sports and music, read a lot of books, and had a lot of conversations. I grew and changed as a person, and hopefully matured. I am the sum of my opinions, thoughts, experiences, and dreams.

[Lizra]

Rian..for me.....answering such personal questions about my inner emotions, in detail, in public, just feels very adolescent, gushy, and schmaltzy. I might have effusived a good blather in my younger days.....but to open up about private (and changing) personal perceptions would feel quite dorky and embarrassing...for me now. I understand you are merely trying to understand what makes people tick, but it just feels very "uncool" to be so open and descriptive in a public forum. I am guarded about my inner self....and find that most men are also not very open about their joys, fears, etc either. I like to let my art speak for me! That is all!

[Nurvingiel]

Dorky! You're the one who just said "inner self".

Well, my post doesn't touch on my "inner self" at all, but there it is. It still describes what I think people are made of anyway, in addition to the complex amino-acid chains.

[Lizra]

You're right..."inner self"= dorky.....

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

... irregardless

That's not even a word!!

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Tom, do you like me?

(don't worry; I mean as a friend )

of course

[Rían]

at the risk of bringing down Lizra's wrath , why do you like me? (this is a non-"gushy" question, btw, Lizra - you completely misunderstand me)

I'll tell you what I like about you first - I like your subtle sense of humor, your compassion for others, your friendliness, and your sense of honor and fairness.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

at the risk of bringing down Lizra's wrath , why do you like me? (this is a non-"gushy" question, btw, Lizra - you completely misunderstand me)

oh, let me count the ways...

/schmaltzy on

your a nice thoughful person who, like me, doesn't mind talking for hours on end about the kind of stuff we talk about here... and whether you agree or not, you seem to give everyone a fair listen, which is all someone can ask for

a friend

*is all choked up*

/schmaltzy off

but i still reserve the right to completely disagree with you from time to time

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

That's not even a word!!

in the words of humpty dumpty...

When I use a word, ... it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.

[Lizra]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

at the risk of bringing down Lizra's wrath , why do you like me? (this is a non-"gushy" question, btw, Lizra - you completely misunderstand me)

I don't understand you R! (I thought you asked the "What makes you happy" bit because of some book you read.) I understand people who give "terse" answers though!

[Elemmírë]

Heh, this is getting interesting. Remind me never to get into the hot seat... I think if I'm in a particularly strange mood during a post, I might just scare some of you people. Though... I suppose it could be interesting...

I can't say anything at the moment which isn't going to get into some weird philosophy (just got out of class... am presently doubting everything and nothing).

And irregardless might not be a word, but it's in the dictionary! The entry says that it's not a real word, though. But what is a real word? If it's used... if it's meaning can be understood... how can it not be real?

Sorry.