Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Ararax]

well obviously you do care weather she does it or not you preffer that she doesnt.
my advice would be debate it out with her, then after you do that tell her that its been debated and right now nothign is going to change. and ask her to stop, since she obviousl isnt doing any good

and as i said you cant excuse anyones evil. catholic muslim baptist or atheist basically people were usign the problems of the catholic church to bash christiananity and religion in general so one must lay the evil where it comes from individual people.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Ararax
well obviously you do care weather she does it or not you preffer that she doesnt.
my advice would be debate it out with her, then after you do that tell her that its been debated and right now nothign is going to change. and ask her to stop, since she obviousl isnt doing any good

and as i said you cant excuse anyones evil. catholic muslim baptist or atheist basically people were usign the problems of the catholic church to bash christiananity and religion in general so one must lay the evil where it comes from individual people.

It's different when it's family. You have to see them all the time. However, you can avoid them whenever possible. That's what I do.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
That's true. One thing you might want to note when considering that, though, is that a lot of Catholic places tend to stifle debate or discussion. There are these things they believe, but they have several beliefs that are not Scripture based. Though of course there are Protestant circles that only accept viewpoints that they hold, and refuse opposing views.

What about the feel of the Catholic church do you like so much?

Most of the Christian religions distort the bible. Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal - so many are there just to judge people and recruit people - especilly the Christian religions like Pentecostal. Catholics don't recruit - anyone is welcome to go to the church without feeling any pressure whatsoever to "join" . So many of the other Christian religions are almost like cults and blindly follow what they are taught without question.

I've been to many different christian churches, as well as various Jewish celebrations so I'm talking from personal experience. If I changed my atheist beliefs - which doesn't seem like it would happen - I'd go back to being Cathoilic - they're not in your face about religion. They don't preach that anyone that doesn't believe like they do is going to hell. They don't preach hatred to others who don't follow what they believe (like some so-called Christians do towards homosexuals) . They don't recruit or go door to door like some annoying sales person.

You may disagree with the catholic religion - but I doubt you know very much about it other than what you're spoon fed. I've heard too many stereotypes and ignorant statements about the Roman Catholicism.

[Ararax]

Originally posted by Ruinel
It's different when it's family. You have to see them all the time. However, you can avoid them whenever possible. That's what I do.

lol thats been my usual method for advoind family problems ahve as little to do with them as possible starting with age 16 when i got a job so unless their gone aka this weekend, im gone aka most of the time tends to solve problems nicely

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Most of the Christian religions distort the bible....

....If I changed my atheist beliefs - which doesn't seem like it would happen - I'd go back to being Cathoilic - they're not in your face about religion. ..........I've heard too many stereotypes and ignorant statements about the Roman Catholicism.

*didn't know JD was also atheist --- shocked*

I completely agree with everything you said.

However, I might consider creating my own religion: Holy Church of the Divine Goddess. In my church all the sheep... errr... followers would worship me as their goddess, hand over 10% of their gross income and wealth, and do my bidding, which would include persecuting anyone that I don't like (on that particular day). Also, I would have an order of men devote themselves to me completely. They would have to give up every comfort and satisfaction (yes, sex with women other than the goddess herself) in order to completely devote themselves to my happiness and pleasure. Yeah... that would do it.

[Ararax]

see what i said bout power and it corrupting

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
*didn't know JD was also atheist --- shocked*

I guess you learn something new everyday. All the old timers know my feelins about religion - I've stayed away from this thread for a long time - because everything has been said over and over again. I can tell you who is even going to pray for my soul to be saved and find Jesus.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Ararax
see what i said bout power and it corrupting

lol! I know... I can't help myself. It was sarcastic. But if you look at my sig, it says: born smart ass.

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I guess you learn something new everyday. All the old timers know my feelins about religion - I've stayed away from this thread for a long time - because everything has been said over and over again. I can tell you who is even going to pray for my soul to be saved and find Jesus.

yep... a day without new knowledge is a day without sunshine.
*can't imagine why anyone would waste their time praying for JD's nonexistent soul--- sigh*

[Ararax]

yea i know if some how i got a postion of power like the pope id totally abuse it *pope gets drunk and passes out on playboy playmate*

[Rían]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
[B]... I feel there haven't been very complete answers in some places, especially from Rian and Gwaimir. I certainly appreciate the effort made by both of you, don't get me wrong! However, I feel there could be more complete answers.... however, it doesn't seem like you've actually answered the question......Oh, and P.S. Rian, hope your parents anniversary went well!

Will post longer sometime this week - just got back, and the anniversary party was great! I attempted to start to answer the question by referring you to Wayfarer's posts on the subject - have any of you guys that are interested in this subject looked them up yet?

Thanks for asking about the anniversary party - it was great! They were really pleased and touched by it - we came up with 50 memories for the 50 years of marriage and wrapped up little things (like shells for the memories of trips to the beach) and then talked about them. It was very personal and a really nice tribute to them.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
This thread was not created with the title: "Christians post your beliefs here." No, it is open to all beliefs.

>> I << started this thread and >> I << say that this thread is for polite and intelligent and vigorous discussion of religious beliefs. "Rock the boat" all you want to, just be considerate to other people and don't deal out personal insults that have nothing to do with the discussion.

Now the thread is somewhat centered around Christianity because I"m a Christian and it just seems like people tend to quote me and other Christians and ask us questions, so we try our best to answer them.

(and I've been gone for 3 days and have 10 pages to catch up on!!!) Oy!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Ya know, I find it a bit presumptuous that evangelical Christians need to convert everyone who does not have Jesus in their lives. It really gets on my nerves. If I'm not trying to convert you to atheism, why do you feel it necessary to convert me to christianity? Guess what? People without Jesus in their lives do not live an empty life. We are quite happy. So, thanks for the offer, but I'll have to decline.

Do you try to get people that you care for to read Tolkien? Why is that? Is it because you (1) care for that person, and (2) you know how Tolkien has enriched your life? They may be 'happy' w/o having ever read Tolkien, but you, the Tolkien reader, KNOW how wonderful his works are. It's the same thing for Christians, as far as sharing their faith.

Sadly, many, many Christians are obnoxious (just like many, many non-Christians are), and they also tend to be obnoxious in this area. But for ME (and I hope for them, too), I will talk to a person about God because of my love for Him and my appreciation for all that He's done in my life, and because I care about people, and I want to share what God has done in my life with anyone that is interested. That's my SOLE motivation, same as my motivation to share Tolkien, except God has blessed me on a much larger scale than Tolkien has

[Rían]

Originally posted by Coney
And these facts are?

Tell me one action in the last 2000 yrs that had genuily benefitted the human race solely through Christianity.

Here's a sample of some of the things that our church does - just ONE Christian church - I know of many other good ones, too : some things our church does

Now why don't we get in the news????

[Rían]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
RÃ*an, when you get back and if you read this, would you mind giving me your opinion on my statements on page 45 about who enters the kingdom? [/B]

*Note to self #2,351 - comment on Lief's posts on pg 45*

[Rían]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Yes, I should be asleep, but I could not sleep too well so I will post this on entmoot then go back to sleep.

Basically LE, what are you trying to say by posting all that you did? ....

I think he is trying to answer those that say (often condescendingly) "oh, having a blind faith in a supernatural being may be fine for YOU, but not for ME".

There is such thing as a REASONABLE faith chosen by an intelligent person, IOW.

BTW, those that object to the circular argument of:
1- "the Bible is God's word -
2- why? -
3 -because it says it is!"

don't think the implications through very well - it is indeed a circular argument and therefore invalid, but then, why don't Christians believe that EVERY book that says it's God's word is indeed God's word? They must have some other sensible reason!!

Really now!! The way some of you talk, you make it seem like any random person could write down a few sentences of stuff, include the line "this is the word of God" in it ..... and Christians would believe it!! If you're going to object to a "blind faith", then please listen to why the Christians here think they do NOT have a blind faith.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
3) No... evolution is a fact. There is no proven existence of a deity that made the universe. There is however evidence of quarks, leptons, etc. Those are facts.

Oh, please, not the "evolution is a fact" misstatement again - you think the existence of a quark proves the THEORY of evolution? *sigh* The THEORY of evolution is by no means a fact! Parts of it may be, such as the survival of the fittest aspects (which also fit fine into the creationist model, BTW), but many parts ARE, and will REMAIN, only a THEORY. Please move any further evolution discussion to the evolution thread.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Oh, please, not the "evolution is a fact" misstatement again - you think the existence of a quark proves the THEORY of evolution? *sigh* The THEORY of evolution is by no means a fact! Parts of it may be, such as the survival of the fittest aspects (which also fit fine into the creationist model, BTW), but many parts ARE, and will REMAIN, only a THEORY. Please move any further evolution discussion to the evolution thread.

No existence of fossils proves evolution, which is a change in a species over time.

The study of particle physics explains how the universe was created.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Hmmm... seems like this thread has turned to Catholic-bashing in order to take the heat off of Christianity, by offering Catholicism up as the sacrificial lamb. Care for a white robe and hood, fellas?

EXCUSE me, miss???? What in the NINE HELLS are you TALKING ABOUT???? Did you just read the world Catholic in my post, and assume I was bashing them?? If you would read the post, you would see that couldn't be FARTHER from the truth!!! All that I said was that I couldn't reconcile certain parts of Catholicism to my beliefs. Sheesh!

1) Most of the Christian religions distort the bible. 2) Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal - so many are there just to judge people and recruit people - especilly the Christian religions like Pentecostal. 3) Catholics don't recruit - anyone is welcome to go to the church without feeling any pressure whatsoever to "join" . 4) So many of the other Christian religions are almost like cults and blindly follow what they are taught without question.

1) Agreed.
2) Disagree. Would you say Khamul is "judging and recruiting people"? He's Baptist, if I remember correctly.
3) Do you mean "join" Catholicism, or "join" Christianity?
4) Y'know, a lot of people say much the same regarding Catholicism and the Pope. All depends on whether you grew up Catholic or Protestant, I guess. See, Lief? Even atheist Catholics. (just kidding, JD)

I'm not expressing a kind of "favouritism" for one type over another; well, actually, I do have a personal "favouritism" towards the Catholic church and similar denominations; but what I mean is, I'm not condemnig specific denominations, while ignoring others. My point is that none of the denominations (including non-denominational) are without sin; but none are without

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
No existence of fossils proves evolution, which is a change in a species over time.

The study of particle physics explains how the universe was created.

Hi Ru! You guys have been busy while I've been gone!!!!

No, the existence of fossils prove that living things can be fossilized (sp?). Now, what is actually CONTAINED in the fossil record will tend to support one theory or another, and frankly, because of the huge LACK of transitionary forms, the fossil record supports the theory of creation by intelligent design more than the theory of evolution, wouldn't you say? Thousands of fossils appear in the fossil record fully formed ... hmmm ...
The miniscule amount of fossils that have been considered to possibly be transitional forms have either been (1) proven to be faked, or (2) are v. debatable (sp? - too tired to spell today...). Evolutionists expected to see simply scads of these transitional forms, but were disappointed, because they weren't there, so they had to come up with things like (oh, I forget the term) - whatever the term is for macro evolutionary changes happening in fits and starts, and hey, when all the massive changes took place, they mysteriously took place in such a short time that they didn't appear in the fossil record.... sounds like cooking the books to me....
Anyway, I'm not following my own advice about moving the evolutionary things to another thread, but it really pushes my buttons when people say that the theory of evolution is PROVEN - honest biologists will say only that there is a lot of evidence to support it. And honest biologists will also admit that there is plenty of evidence that supports creation by intelligent design (INCLUDING the fossil record, which supports intelligent design more than evolution!)

Anyway, I'll let you have the last word here, if you want, and then let's move any further evolution/creation discussion to the evolution thread, please.

And re particle physics - "The study of particle physics explains how the universe was created." - no, the information gained from the study of particle physics is used to build a THEORY of how the universe was created.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Evolutionists expected to see simply scads of these transitional forms, but were disappointed, because they weren't there, so they had to come up with things like (oh, I forget the term) - whatever the term is for macro evolutionary changes happening in fits and starts, and hey, when all the massive changes took place, they mysteriously took place in such a short time that they didn't appear in the fossil record....

Actually, we don't expect to find scads of these transitional forms because a) the fossil record is too fragile and b) the whole point is that evolution *is* about change, and therefore, all specimens could be considered "transitional." It rather bugs me that people (tending to be creationists) are always accusing us of trying to find transitionals. This simply isn't true!

Secondly, the term you are looking for is "Punctuated Equilibrium."

Thirdly, I agree with you that the fossil record of Evolution is not fact, or law - it is theory, however small scale evolution is definately fact.