04-14-2004, 10:37 AM | #1101 | |
Orodruin's Flame
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Then whats the point may i ask? Are they just doing it for the sake of it? You belive in something as radical ( in many peoples eyes ) as dying, and paradise awaiting for you, why dont stick to those beliefs like glue? Surely a little hard times in this life can be taken if absolute paradise awaits?
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Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist. |
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04-14-2004, 10:58 AM | #1102 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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some people truely do believe, and do there best to follow those beliefs
a larger majority are just "going with the flow"... i don't think they really think about the larger implications of their belief systems at all
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
04-14-2004, 11:00 AM | #1103 |
Orodruin's Flame
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Okay, then we come to question again, Why?
Whats the point in putting a half - hearted effort in something like belief?
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Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist. |
04-14-2004, 12:08 PM | #1104 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Do you have exactly the same moral feelings when you see a mosquito killed, by whatever means, as when you see a human killed, by whatever means? (really, I don't know why you're being so difficult! . Do you really place the same value on a mosquito and a human? If not, why is it difficult to admit?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-14-2004, 12:32 PM | #1105 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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my guess is that the mosquito wouldn't have much of an issue with squashing me either, if he was in the position to do so on the half-hearted effort twist... i guess many "believers" think that it's the thought that counts... it's much easier to spout principles than live by them, and some people think that just having principles counts for something here's a question for you r*an... who, in god's eye, would be more deserving of heaven: a devoute believer who sinned many times throughout his life but eventually repented or a life-long atheist who lived a perfectly moral life? or would they both be just about the same?
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-14-2004, 12:35 PM | #1106 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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No matter how good the second one was, he wasn't good enough for it - though on a relative scale, one might claim he was closer to it than the first. The first realizes his short-comings, and approached God the only way we can... in humility, accepting what He has done for us.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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04-14-2004, 12:53 PM | #1107 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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*decides she doesn't care because the important thing is communication, and if it takes her a few more words to communicate than it takes others, tough cookies! Her friends will have to put up with it* I have several answers to the question : "who, in god's eye, would be more deserving of heaven:" (and I hope you believe I'm not trying to be difficult or deceptive, because I'm not - I'm just trying to answer honestly) 1) I think the most correct answer is : neither. It's like saying "who's closer to getting to the moon? The guy at the top of Mt. Everest, or the guy standing on a box at the top of Mt. Everest?" It's a moot question - the important point is that there is no way that either one will EVER make it to the moon on their own power - they need outside help. 2) The question is invalid, because there is no such thing as a "life-long atheist who lived a perfectly moral life" - heck, there's no such thing as ANYONE that has lived a perfectly moral life, except Jesus. So I cannot choose between those two options, because only 1 option is real. I can't choose a non-existent option. Anyway, that reminds me of a book I just finished reading - "What's so Amazing About Grace?" (For those who aren't familiar with hymns, it's a reference to the hymn "Amazing Grace" - the first line is "Amazing grace! How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me!"). Great book! It talks about how radical Christianity is in the sense that it's really the only worldview/religion that has the concept of grace - IOW, we are ALL guilty of sin to some degree, and we are ALL offered God's forgiveness (altho we chose to reject it) because of His great love for ALL of us. I'm in the same boat as a pedophile (the easy example of a scumbag) - we will both never "reach the moon" on our own steam. And most of my apparent "goodness" is not even my own merit, anyway - I'm fortunate enough to have been raised in a stable family and have always had food and shelter and have never been abused physically. When I look at the "scum of the earth", I think "that's me, but for God's grace - how can I help them?", and I think "How hurt they must be, and how much God loves them!" And God offers to BOTH of us His Son, because neither one of us can pay the price of our sins. Have you ever noticed how Jesus often hung out with the scumbags of the earth? He found them a lot more "real" than many of the religious leaders, apparently. The good thing about hurting is that you know you have a problem, and these people were hurting. And Jesus had the answer.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-14-2004 at 12:55 PM. |
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04-14-2004, 01:15 PM | #1108 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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i personally have a hard time with putting too much weight on the "humility factor", or any weight for that matter... it strikes me as somewhat vain... a good person is a good person in my eyes, and deserves all the credit for being one i guess i know where i'm headed
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-14-2004, 01:18 PM | #1109 |
Elven Warrior
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Meet you there then, brownjenkins !
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~ I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith. ~ ----- Gedichte, Texte, Wallpapers: www.ithilgalad.info ----- The Queendom of The Roaming Galadhrim |
04-14-2004, 01:26 PM | #1110 | |
The Intermittent One
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04-14-2004, 01:27 PM | #1111 | |
Her Infernal Majesty
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"It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this." - Yamamoto Tsunetomo |
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04-14-2004, 01:30 PM | #1112 |
Elven Warrior
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Sounds like we´ll have a party, lots of fun, perhaps some beer or tequila... Rock´n´Roll !!! And a bunch of intelligent, yet cool people to talk to !!!
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~ I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith. ~ ----- Gedichte, Texte, Wallpapers: www.ithilgalad.info ----- The Queendom of The Roaming Galadhrim |
04-14-2004, 01:30 PM | #1113 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And a "good person" WILL get credit for his truly good actions by God - but he will also get credit for his bad actions, which is only fair. And the penalty for the bad actions is death, but God offers to have Jesus pay the penalty for the bad actions.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-14-2004 at 01:32 PM. |
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04-14-2004, 01:34 PM | #1114 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Any comment on my longish answer, brownie?
Also, since you said "a good person is a good person in my eyes, and deserves all the credit for being one", do you agree that a person deserves all the credit for his/her bad actions?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-14-2004, 02:05 PM | #1115 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
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i like the song amazing grace too Quote:
upbringing, friends, experiences, etc... deserve credit for the good and blame for the bad also but everyone starts the same when they are born, barring physical ailments, with the potential for both good and bad
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-14-2004, 02:38 PM | #1116 | |||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-14-2004, 05:03 PM | #1117 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(And a virus is statistically insignificant when introduced into a human population that is not resistant to it. but look at the damage it can do ) Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-14-2004, 05:08 PM | #1118 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-14-2004, 05:31 PM | #1119 | ||||||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And I agree that we don't know everything yet - I don't see a problem there, and I never said it was any type of a problem to realize that we don't know everything yet. Quote:
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In the homosexuality thread, you said (and I'm paraphrasing here) basically that Christians mindlessly think that homosexuality is wrong only because it happens to be described as wrong in the Bible. Well, you're wrong, at least in my case, and I tried to show you that. Quote:
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When you bring up points, my typical method is to ASSUME your points are TRUE! Then I think about them AS IF THEY WERE TRUE, and then I start to make logical inferences, ASSUMING THEY ARE TRUE, and then I usually start to see problems from the logical inferences I can make when I ASSUME THEY ARE TRUE, and then I bring up these issues. I am quite open-minded, altho I doubt you believe it And I think that you are often NOT open-minded, because you can't seem to get outside of your viewpoint, like I do. IOW, I don't see you ASSUMING what I say is TRUE, then thinking it through. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-14-2004 at 05:40 PM. |
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04-14-2004, 06:36 PM | #1120 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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