Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
7) Because the Catholic Church has been around longer, it has been attributed to more bad stuff than the other christian sects.
8) She is a christian. Trust me.

7) And also, it's been in higher places of authority, hence more power, hence higher rate of corruption. And of course sheer numbers.
8) I would be interested in hearing just HOW you know that? Tomorrow, of course.

[Ararax]

ok to lief since the seperation of church and state there has been alot less instances of church persecution (church persecuting unbelievers)
to Runiel
well it was an example saying i dont question her her devotion to her cause i question her cause as being the best cause jsut form the results.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Leif Erikson: yeah... you do (evangelize), go back and reread your own posts.
I have no idea why you are now attacking my sister. Now, she isn't even a real christian because she gives up something she likes for Lent? You confuse me.

The rest of your post is too long for me to bother reading right now. And I have a game waiting for me.

Her giving up something for Lent isn't something against her, and I have nothing against her.

I have no real idea about the spiritual state of your sister, but I am agreeing with Gwaimir that there is a difference between being devout and being born again. A difference which you cannot appreciate as yet, and have no intention of appreciating, for you see it as not existing.

Please read the rest of my post, that which you considered too long. It is a defense of myself, and I think you might be on the wrong thread, considering the type of and manner of opinions you have consistently given.

I don't think I can respond to your posts anymore. I am sorry for any offense I have given you, and I hope we can converse civily on other threads.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Ararax
ok to lief since the seperation of church and state there has been alot less instances of church persecution (church persecuting unbelievers)

You might be interested also to note, Ararax (Though this has nothing to do with anything) that more Christians are being and have been martyred for their faith in the 20th century than have been in all the rest of history put together. I gave a list of some of the countries to Coney earlier which includes which ones have major persecution going on within them.

[Ararax]

well id rather die for my faith then kill someone for my faith, jesus died for his faith if i follow him there is not greater show of devotion to die for what he said

[Lief Erikson]

Luckily, the Bible doesn't order Christians to kill anyone. The Old Testament rules for the Israelites did, but that was a very different circumstance than we have now. Also they were for the state, rather than because of the individuals. They were law.

Except in the situations where God commanded people to go and destroy others, like the Canaanite massacres. There was a judgement commanded though, because the wickedness of those people was a stench in God's nostrils. The "brutality" of God is commonly brought up by nonChristians.

That's one problem I have with the outlook some Atheists have. They aren't interested enough to look at the details when they bring up a problem like that, or to go into real biblical analysis. Life is complex, science is complex, if a religion is correct, isn't it logical that it would be complex as well, in some areas?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
1) exactly. Since god is manmade and church is manmade, it follows that both of these would have the same corruption as mankind.

2) you are not talking to me I presume. The person I was talking about is my sister, and she does not believe that murder is good.

Leif Erikson: yeah... you do (evangelize), go back and reread your own posts.
I have no idea why you are now attacking my sister. 3)Now, she isn't even a real christian because she gives up something she likes for Lent? You confuse me.

The rest of your post is too long for me to bother reading right now. And I have a game waiting for me.

1) For record: Your opinion.
2) Goodness! I don't think that was what he meant. I believe that was just an example, of differentiating between the devotion and the cause.
3) Goodness! (again) I'd certainly never say that; aside from the fact that there is obviously nothing wrong with abstinence (I don't mean THAT ), I find the Catholic church to be absolutely fascinating, and just might join, if not for a couple major doctrinal differences, especially Justification, which I cannot reconcile to my own belief, or to Epehesians 2:8-9. Who knows, though, maybe I'll just ignore that part.

[Lief Erikson]

Which particular things about the Catholic religion would you join it for? I mean, which things do you think Protestants have incorrect which Catholics do do correctly? I'm very curious .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Oh, I don't know that it's really doctrinal differences, so much as the overall feel. I don't really think it matters what denomination (or lack thereof) you belong to, as much as that you are a true Christian. Catholics can easily be Christians (as much as Protestants would deny it ), Anglicans can, non-denominationals can be not true Christians, and so on. The atmosphere and beauty of the Catholic Church just feels right for me, of course assuming that it has "that certain special something".

[Lief Erikson]

That's true. One thing you might want to note when considering that, though, is that a lot of Catholic places tend to stifle debate or discussion. There are these things they believe, but they have several beliefs that are not Scripture based. Though of course there are Protestant circles that only accept viewpoints that they hold, and refuse opposing views.

What about the feel of the Catholic church do you like so much?

By the way, I'll understand if you can't answer very precisely. It's the sort of question my Grandma might put to me, and which I'd be a bit flummexed by. At least it's over Internet .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
That's true. One thing you might want to note when considering that, though, is that a lot of Catholic places tend to stifle debate or discussion. There are these things they believe, but they have several beliefs that are not Scripture based. Though of course there are Protestant circles that only accept viewpoints that they hold, and refuse opposing views.

What about the feel of the Catholic church do you like so much?

By the way, I'll understand if you can't answer very precisely. It's the sort of question my Grandma might put to me, and which I'd be a bit flummexed by. At least it's over Internet .

Yeah. If I were to become Catholic, I would definitely not just settle for the nearest church; I'd have to find me the best one around!

Well, I have a very deep, deep sense of ritual. I feel that that sort of thing beautifies Truth. Although, if it has no real Truth (first FAITH, then "that certain special something", now Truth; It's a wonder I don't put all the 'Mooters' brains into overload ) behind it, it is an empty shell, just as any form of Christianity is. Also, I love the sense of "old" that comes with a Church that's over 1500 years of age. Also, I feel it has a bigger sense of "church" than Protestantism, though I can't describe it better than that. There's more to it than that, but I can't express it. I tend to get tongue-tied rather easily, despite the fact my IQ test said I was a Word-Warrior.

O, boy, do I ever know what you mean. My mom asks me questions that "flummex" me all the time!

[Lief Erikson]

Okay, well that's up to you. But it doesn't really sound like you'd be becoming a Catholic. You'd be merely going to a Catholic church.

Also, I don't think that Catholics teach the born again experience much.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Okay, well that's up to you. But it doesn't really sound like you'd be becoming a Catholic. You'd be merely going to a Catholic church.

Also, I don't think that Catholics teach the born again experience much.

-various Protestant mooters breathe sighs of relief-

[Lief Erikson]

Eh?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

You're Canadian, too?

I was referring to the fact that there is often some...ah...tension between Protestants and Catholics. My mother isn't very fond of Catholicism, and I've heard some anti-Catholic sentiment from Protestant online friends. Not strong, but some.

EDIT: Fountain Valley, CA! It's true!

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
You're Canadian, too?

I was referring to the fact that there is often some...ah...tension between Protestants and Catholics. My mother isn't very fond of Catholicism, and I've heard some anti-Catholic sentiment from Protestant online friends. Not strong, but some.

EDIT: Fountain Valley, CA! It's true!

That's interesting. I've not encountered that tension before. Although, it might be possible that the same amount is coming from me. I have some difficulties with some of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Not the ones I simply don't believe (Like the bread and wine transforming into real blood and flesh) but the ones that specifically ignore the most vital aspect of our faith, which is the spiritual experience. As well as the part that doesn't encourage discussion and thought based upon the Bible, but upon traditions from the past.

So, those are my chief beefs with Catholicism. I have HUGE problems with liberal Christianity, though. Too many Protestants are strongly liberal, and water down to nothing our most vital beliefs. That is something I have encountered a lot, and am trying to fight against, though in Christ's way, naturally. Not hitting them over the head with a book .

Like the way many Christians are destroying the Bible by not having major problems with abortion, homosexuality, divorce, things that are explicitly spoken against in the Scripture. Others say that the Bible is too weak, has been retranslated too many times and can be interpreted any which way. In one blow, that view destroys all Christianity. It means "believe whatever you want to believe," and it is not Christian.

NOTE: This particular post is addressed solely to Gwaimir, not to nonChristians .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
So, those are my chief beefs with Catholicism. I have HUGE problems with liberal Christianity, though. Too many Protestants are strongly liberal, and water down to nothing our most vital beliefs. That is something I have encountered a lot, and am trying to fight against, though in Christ's way, naturally. Not hitting them over the head with a book .

Like the way many Christians are destroying the Bible by not having major problems with abortion, homosexuality, divorce, things that are explicitly spoken against in the Scripture. Others say that the Bible is too weak, has been retranslated too many times and can be interpreted any which way. In one blow, that view destroys all Christianity. It means "believe whatever you want to believe," and it is not Christian.

NOTE: This particular post is addressed solely to Gwaimir, not to nonChristians .

-pretty much agrees with Lief-

[Finrod Felagund]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson

Like the way many Christians are destroying the Bible by not having major problems with abortion, homosexuality, divorce, things that are explicitly spoken against in the Scripture. Others say that the Bible is too weak, has been retranslated too many times and can be interpreted any which way. In one blow, that view destroys all Christianity. It means "believe whatever you want to believe," and it is not Christian.

I couldn't agree more!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
7) And also, it's been in higher places of authority, hence more power, hence higher rate of corruption. And of course sheer numbers.
8) I would be interested in hearing just HOW you know that? Tomorrow, of course.

7) of course. statistically speaking it follows logic that it would have a higher rate of corruption than any other christian sect.
8) *sigh* I really don't give a hacca nyarron if she is or is not. I just don't need her singing the praises of Jesus to me all the freakin' time. I seriously don't care.

[Ruinel]

Hmmm... seems like this thread has turned to Catholic-bashing in order to take the heat off of Christianity, by offering Catholicism up as the sacrificial lamb. Care for a white robe and hood, fellas?