09-02-2005, 02:47 PM | #1081 |
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It's relevant to the discussion Gaffer and I were having from the Kansas curriculum discussion - I can't help that the evidence for creationism thread got merged with this one. I didn't put it on the Katrina thread, because I think it was way out of place there. But I think it's very relevant here, and people need to think about and discuss terrible things, instead of running away from them. Only then can we fully deal with them.
Like you, I'm horrified at the terrible things going on. Like you, my heart is warmed by the actions of people like Katrina. I think it vitally important to think about why. And if your explanation is that we evolved to feel that way, then take that and sleep with it, along with all its implications - that there IS nothing truly wrong with the atrocities taking place over there. Do you really believe that? If so, embrace it fully, and say things like, "Isn't it interesting how I hear of rape and murder over there and I feel something we call pity? However, I know that that's only something that evolved in me, and there's no real meaning to the word or my feelings. After all, if my ancestors felt pity towards the ones that were going to be selected against, I would never have evolved to what I am!" Can you say that? I think people generally don't have the guts to embrace what they say they believe. They just pick out the parts they like, and run from any uncomfortable parts, instead of truly thinking them through and being unafraid to embrace them (or realize that if they have problems with certain aspects of their worldview, that perhaps it's because their worldview is incorrect, and start thinking about other worldviews.) I think it's terrible - TERRIBLE - how many people over there are acting. Yet if they're beasts, why do you object to them acting like beasts?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-02-2005, 02:49 PM | #1082 | |
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What about the SETI and Mars rover scientists?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-02-2005, 02:53 PM | #1083 | |||
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09-02-2005, 02:56 PM | #1084 | |
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i have no problem finding meaning looking no futher than the people around me... i don't need any bigger purpose or reason than that
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09-02-2005, 03:00 PM | #1085 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-02-2005, 03:03 PM | #1086 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-02-2005, 03:32 PM | #1087 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-03-2005, 07:23 PM | #1088 | |
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a "creator" in your sense would be someone who wanted a scarf and willed it to appear... not an intellectually impossible theory, but not physically impliable by anything we observe in the world around us
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09-03-2005, 07:44 PM | #1089 | ||
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the only thing that bothers me (and maybe i took it the wrong way) is when you say stuff like "Since you're now enlightened and you realize that your compassion is merely a by-product of natural selection and doesn't really mean anything, then I hope you'll get back into your senses and keep your money for yourselves." you are basically saying that it is not possible for me to find meaning in life with the belief system i hold... then you turn around and say, "but, of course, you are a nice person anyway"... it just doesn't add up i don't think i've ever said or asked, "how can you be moral being a christian?" ... because i already know that a christian can be a perfectly moral person ... but i've been asked "how can you be moral being an agnostic?" ... given my reasons many times ... and yet still they are questioned maybe you can tell me... how am i still a moral person eventhough i have zero belief in god? (if you think i am, of course )
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09-03-2005, 08:06 PM | #1090 |
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I'm just going to interject here a comment. Not interrupting the conversation or adding to it; you all can quote over me . It's something really funny I saw a few months ago.
I was watching a NOVA video on chemistry, and there was a female scientist. The movie was really getting on my nerves because people in it were treating the audience like they were in kindergarten. Then she said this: "You may think that with all the inventions we have now, we have discovered all there is to know about science. (Condescend, condescend ) However, we are decades from that point."
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
09-04-2005, 02:23 AM | #1091 |
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IMO, NOVA isn't produced for the intelligensia.
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09-04-2005, 10:20 AM | #1092 | |
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brownie - I'd love to discuss your points, but am on the way out the door for a day at the beach
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-05-2005, 07:36 AM | #1093 | ||
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Wait a minute... these two threads were combined?
*head 'splodie* I guess it makes sense.
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09-05-2005, 08:57 PM | #1094 | |
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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09-06-2005, 10:41 AM | #1095 | |
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it may have been rhetorical for you, but I"m going to address it anyway (a bit later) - I see there's still a misunderstanding there...
Here's an interesting article: Quote:
and two notes: they are NOT a "religious" organization (there are agnostics there), and they do NOT only deal with ID/creationism - they deal with lots of other fields, too.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-06-2005, 10:46 AM | #1096 |
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Indeed. Unfortunately a lot of academians use their tenure as a podium for radical ideas or worse; this is just another example.
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09-06-2005, 12:13 PM | #1097 | |
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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09-06-2005, 12:22 PM | #1098 | ||
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as i said earlier in this thread, it's all words... and any new theory is going to have to deal with often strong vocal opposition (ask einstein or galileo)... put down some good testable theories and enough people will eventually come around to support the idea of presenting the theory in academic classrooms... whining about criticism gets you nowhere
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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09-06-2005, 12:52 PM | #1099 | |||
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*southern accent & innocent look* Why, suh, whatever do you mean by that? Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-06-2005, 01:10 PM | #1100 | |
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