05-13-2004, 02:43 PM | #1081 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Ahhh, yes those slimy tentacles. Those were the days, destroying planets, eating human flesh. What happened to us, BH?
At the initial moment there must be two possibilities between which lies the apparent averaged reality. The chaotic element of that initial unknown permeates every causal chain from that instant, thus preserving its momentum thoughout the time-space of all probable instances. The end moment conseals the balancing of the equation of all causality to it's neutral state where it began. We dangle in the web maze between, inifinitely separated from those nodes, seeing only the web before us.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
05-13-2004, 04:49 PM | #1082 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I wonder if I'll ever be around to see it start to impinge on other areas of study other than fleetingly. Damned slow academia.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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05-13-2004, 09:27 PM | #1083 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Cirdan--two possibilities? I'd say even the beginning holds more than that. But yes. |
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05-14-2004, 03:48 PM | #1084 |
Elf Lord
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"Ahhh, yes those slimy tentacles. Those were the days, destroying planets, eating human flesh. What happened to us, BH?"
Well it's kinda tuff, being dead and dreaming and stuck in some fishy smelling sunken city and all. Damned stars just won't line up correctly. However, considering the idea that you (seem) to be positing a reality constructed of slices between the actual collapse points, it would therefore follow that reality is more plastic than normally assumed.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
05-14-2004, 08:53 PM | #1085 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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In the external time frame and initial event could initiate an infinite set of casual universal realities. I was only focused on our particular version.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-14-2004, 09:33 PM | #1086 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I assume that there is some number of accumulated constants that limit plasticity, but that it is a nearly zero sum event. The event would probably carry enough impetus to reinitiate.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary Last edited by Cirdan : 05-14-2004 at 09:38 PM. |
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05-15-2004, 12:00 PM | #1087 |
Elf Lord
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The question then remains, how much is plasticity affected by observation then?
Obviously there are limits, primarily the "initial" constraints, to paraphrase you. but probably other limits also.... lets call them "universal laws" or "constants". Amongst those parameters, is the plasticity of reality significantly affected by observer bias? (of course you already know I think it is)
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
05-19-2004, 12:18 PM | #1088 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Sorry for the late response - I've been out of town, then battling spyware.
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And Christianity is neither simple nor comfortable in all areas. And to repeat for the seemingly billionth time, I have no fears of being wrong - if I'm wrong, then I'll just go "poof" and disappear when I die and I'll never even know it. Again, however, if YOU'RE wrong, you will NOT go "poof" and quietly disappear when you die - you will be dealing for all eternity with the consequences of your choices here on earth (as will I). Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 05-19-2004 at 12:21 PM. |
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05-19-2004, 12:20 PM | #1089 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-19-2004, 12:23 PM | #1090 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-19-2004, 12:27 PM | #1091 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-19-2004, 12:36 PM | #1092 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Good! (sentence 2) Your opinion; mine differs, also based on my evaluation of the evidence (sentence 3). Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-19-2004, 01:32 PM | #1093 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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05-19-2004, 01:35 PM | #1094 | ||||||||
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Many of my clients have the same probelm. I think they should just be called viruses. Quote:
Fine., I'll search for your post but all I remember is something about "but nobody observed them and all you have are bones" or something to that effect. And stop sighing, woman. It's seems like you're trying to be condesending but it's just sort of a silly affectation in debates. Quote:
LOL! Okay.... Paleontologists have scientifically proved that evolution '"should" have happened if' the analysis of the fossils are "right". Nice semantics. Quote:
Yes, and you know quite well what I meant. You know very little about me and are in no position to analyze me. It is just a tactic to distract from the point at hand. I could make the oservation that you are obsessed with religion based on you choice of reading material (C. S. Lewis, Chesterton, etc) and your constant interjection of religion into every thread you post. I would guess that your entire psyche is centered on Christianity and admitting evolution was possible and the most logical scientific explaination to date would cause such cognitive disonance in your mind that you would have a nervous breakdown. Your repeated denial that proving evolution were true is unrelated to your faith is a compartmentalization of your denial. By your own logic you said I would go to hell if evolution were proved to be false when it is quite possible that there are still other explainations just as testable as the mythical creation story. But you don't see that. You believe that disproving evolution IS the proof of God, with is the logical failing of Creationism. It isn't an either/or situation. Now if you would like to continue this net psychoanalysis, fine, otherwise, "just the facts, maam." Quote:
More proof you are locked in a logical paradigm that you can't see beyond. And don't bother to teach me about christianity. I find your version unattractive. I like my rector and her views are more in line with mine. Remember Pat Benetar? "Hell is for children" Quote:
Why bother to quote my entire paragraph and then give this kind of response? Still no *good* answer, I guess. Quote:
Oh, that's right. Because you say so. It's quite feasable whether or not you believe it or it is a theory and not a fact. So, not open minded at all, then? How could you change your mind if facts "proved" ToE if you think it's not "feasable"? LIke the old adage, "I'll see it when I believe it". At least you've finally admitted to the "long periods of time" aspect of the earth. Quote:
Just say this once out loud. "I believe god created the earth and all the creatures on it as they are today. This belief is not based on facts but solely on my faith as a devout orthadox christian. There is no scientific evidence to support my belief but my faith is strong enough that I don't need a naturalistic explanation." You will feel much better.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-19-2004, 01:46 PM | #1095 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I take my son to church to learn morals and spirituaity and send him to school to learn the facts he will need to function. I'd rather he learn Latin than creationism.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-19-2004, 03:29 PM | #1096 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
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"Do you mean God didn't create any physical matter whatsoever?"
Yes. What you think of as "physical" matter is merely a universal construct created by your brain to explain the negative repulsion of frezons... It does not have "existence" whatsoever without an observer. "I don't see how there can be possibility without an agent to achieve it." Observer necessity is built into the universe. Without an observer point, all the math built around our understanding of physics would collapse and become meaningless. However referring to it as an agent implies action, which is NOT required or specified. All that "existence" requires is possibility and an observer. When those two "interact" then "reality" is the result. "I think you're not really posing a discussion point, anyway - I think you're just having fun but I'll still point out the faulty thinking." More's the pity, I don't think you grasped the relevance of the statement(s). As for pointing out the faulty thinking, I'm sort of waiting for that to happen.... You posited the possibility of faulty thinking, but I have yet to observe it, therefore I am led to the conclusion that this "faulty thinking" has no existence.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
05-19-2004, 04:29 PM | #1097 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-19-2004, 04:55 PM | #1098 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I have not observed faulty thinking in your metaphysical prose but I do detect a tiny bit of something else... possibly bemusement. *reminds self to re-educate self on QP*
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-19-2004, 05:01 PM | #1099 | ||||||||||||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I think to swing over to thinking that the evidence supports evolutionism more, I would have to see several things which I currently don't see. Mainly, I would have to see some form of change in organisms that does not appear to be firmly bounded. There are organisms with very short lifecycles where you can get many, many generations, and if I saw some really good observable evidence of changes along the lines of definite, substantial and sustainable beneficial changes, I would give a lot more points to evolutionism. Another area would be a discovery of some type of in-between lung. I really have a problem with birds, especially, and the whole idea of how their lungs and bones are different, and how in the world could a lung type change to an avian-type lung while still working thru all its supposed tiny little changes. That's 2 big areas for me. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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05-19-2004, 05:05 PM | #1100 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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