05-07-2002, 09:09 AM | #1081 | ||||||||||||||
The Original Corruptor
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I have a problem with your attempts at showing the plausibility of your religion. It's not necessarily the technical aspects, even though I did bring up some issues. No, it's the necessity of religion. You need to show why any religion is necessary, before you show which one is the most plausible. |
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05-07-2002, 09:59 AM | #1082 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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I made it to the beginning of section 4 i believe but i stopped after that. .
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 05-07-2002 at 10:06 AM. |
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05-07-2002, 10:38 AM | #1083 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-07-2002, 11:35 AM | #1084 | |||||||||
Elf Lord
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Very well. 1) What do you mean by "created"? Some sects accept the idea of evolution by design. Does it have to be in 7 days? In other words, is this strictly bound to Genisis? 2) Pass! But then there is the entire question of why a nearly omnipotent being would create such a creature capable of failing, and them tempt him by placing him in a position to fail. 3) Well I know some sects who go both ways on this question. Some sects claim that he was not fully divine, merely first among men. Other sects claim he was god incarnate, none of this mucking around with a seprate entity thing. In fact, it's one of the more contentious "points" and that's surprising, since it would also SEEM like it would be the central point. 4) Odd. I've seen interpretations that he only paid up front for 144,000. I'm also curious as to how being resurrected would pay for anything, since it goes contrary to the idea of sacrifice. 5) Well now that's something that the various sects DO seem to be in agreement about. Except that they all wish for you to do it in a particular way. WHich also seems to coincide with joining a particular organization, which also then usually involves adhering to a particular leadership, and giving money. However, If I may point out, it's not the "only" way. It's pointed out that if one were capable of following the "Law" (presumably as handed out in the Torah and by Moses) then that too was also permissable. Just highly unlikely anyone could follow such a convoluted arrangement. Then there are other outs, such as the questions posed about those "heathens" who had never heard "the word" etc. That's one of the problems with trying to boil down a belief system with such wide ranging and contrary beliefs. Still it wasn't a bad list, given the difficulty. However I might also point out that: #1 Is unsupported by empirical evidence, and if you posit a non-genisis creation, it becomes metaphysical. #2 Is unsupported by empirical evidence (though if stupidity were specifically listed as a sin, I might be more inclined to agree), and is therefore a metaphysical point. #3 There is some evidence that a historical figure did exist. But the manifestation of divine is definately a metaphysical point. #4 Again a purely metaphysical assertion. #5 And again, another metaphyscial assertion. At which point I have to bring up the idea that in the realm of the metaphysical, all assertions have equal merit. If you choose these based on emotions and subjective reaction, then by all means do so. However I don't see why it's any more "rational" than a voudon sacrificing a chiken to Damballa, or a Pagan dancing in the moonlight. Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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05-07-2002, 12:18 PM | #1085 | |||||
Elf Lord
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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05-07-2002, 12:30 PM | #1086 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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05-07-2002, 12:55 PM | #1087 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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I think that it is diffucult, on an emotional level versus a cognitive, to discuss religious tenets. Since most cultures begin the indoctrination so early in life, the sudden feeling of possibly having been "hoodwinked" may cloud the issue. The other issue is life's occasional serving of "a steaming pile" leaves one thinking that somehow this benevolent, mythical being you were taught to believe before you were capable of periods of rational thinking, has let you down. The simple reality is much easier to reconcile. There is no system to regulate the spq (steaming pile quota). "Believing" helps some people shovel; it helps others (the sheep) stand around in it without thinking about the smell as much. The rest of us just need boots and a lot of rain. So much for beating the analogy to death.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-07-2002, 03:34 PM | #1088 | ||||||||||||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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The Box Strikes Back!
Creationist misquotes:
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However, Lewontin himself refuted this misquote with: Quote:
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However, the next part of the quote omitted by the creationists: Quote:
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 05-07-2002 at 05:26 PM. |
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05-07-2002, 03:36 PM | #1089 | ||
the Shrike
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Part One.
Emplynx said:
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 05-07-2002 at 03:41 PM. |
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05-07-2002, 03:38 PM | #1090 | |
the Shrike
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Part two.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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05-07-2002, 03:40 PM | #1091 | |
the Shrike
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Part Three.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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05-07-2002, 04:15 PM | #1092 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Location: Reality
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Ugh! This is so hard to follow, I really can't digest what all is being said here! I have struggled with this topic my whole life, and unfortunately am still struggling. I absolutely hate it that I can't be a Christian. The nicest people I've ever met have usually been Christians. They are so happy too. It would be so wonderful to have it all in black and white. This is the way it was/is and this is how you lead your life. All you have to do is work on being a good person. That is the appeal I guess. I hate it that I'm wasting my lfe struggling with this issue, but I love the truth and I love science. That hurts the Christian thing. For a while after I read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, I believed. I was so Happy, it was like a weight had been lifted from my chest. Then I read "Stealing Jesus" byBruce Bawer and the old doubts crept up. Darn, I envy young people that are raised with faith. My parents are aethiest so here I am. I love to go to church, It is so wonderful. But I struggle so, I just go and listen and take what good I can get from it. My life's half over as it is, I don't care anymore. By the way, B of P, if I knew how to make that smiley face thing at you, I would
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-07-2002 at 04:29 PM. |
05-07-2002, 04:39 PM | #1093 |
The Rogue Elf
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I'm just fine and dandy with my atheism! I'm a chipper little person my friends tell me.
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05-07-2002, 04:47 PM | #1094 |
Hoplite Nomad
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hey BH
your thoughts on this Science offers proof without any certainty. Creationists offer certainty without any proof. Ashley Montagu (Anthropologist) The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. Delos McKown (Ph.D. philosopher and former clergyman)
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-07-2002, 04:59 PM | #1095 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-07-2002, 05:10 PM | #1096 |
The Rogue Elf
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,722
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It was always the other way around for me: religion always confused the hell outta me. It only made me more depressed and mean and all that other bad stuff. Freedom from religion made me a happier, nicer, more understanding person. I'm better off without it.
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05-07-2002, 05:29 PM | #1097 | |
the Shrike
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It's in the smiley menu on the left hand side of the reply window. RE - I'm with you on that one! Hasn't caused me anything but misery. *Shudder.*
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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05-07-2002, 05:36 PM | #1098 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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SCREAM
By James A. Haught Did you ever hear a rabbit scream? Bunnies make a heart-rending shriek when pierced by fangs of a fox or talons of a hawk. Did you ever see a child dying of leukemia trying to understand trying to be brave but doomed? Did you ever see families killed by a twister or an earthquake or a monsoon flood or a volcano? Did you ever watch a fawn in the jaws of a lion or a piglet coiled by a python or a seal ripped by a shark? Did you ever see the eyes of a woman when she's told she has breast cancer? All these horrors are nature at work And nature, you say, was designed by an all-loving all-merciful all-benevolent all-compassionate all-kind God. You want me to worship this designer? Are you crazy?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-07-2002, 06:49 PM | #1099 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
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BoP, you really rule! I could hear the sound of hot air rushing from the "Dr. H" blimp. Obviously he's trolling for "lost souls", or maybe willing to pay $250,000 for someone to penetrate his impregnable barrier of ignorance. Hey, maybe the DoD could use it for the "star wars missle shield". We could hire David Copperfield to make it look like he changed a fish into a bird. Isn't "microevolution" a concession anyway? Then all you have to do is prove the age og the earth. Given several billion "microevolutionary" steps would be full scale evolution. I want ten percent if it works.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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05-07-2002, 06:54 PM | #1100 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Ack.
I might really rule, but that wasn't me. I should have made that more clear when I posted it.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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