Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Lief Erikson]

Coney, do you believe in an individual's right to take his or her own life?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
1) Prove it.
2) It has been "proven" to you. Yet, there are creationists. But if it were possible to prove the existence of the Bible, then there would be no atheists. Why is this? Is it that people who refuse to believe in anything that they cannot see, touch, smell, hear, or taste (in some instances with greatly amplified sense) are very open-minded etc., whereas people who can accept the existence of something bigger than themselves, or which is not proven, are close-minded, primitive bigots?

Oh yes: Quiet you! I wasn't talking to you.
3) That has nothing to do with the question: if it is not interesting to some, why does that make it uninteresting to any?

4) It seems to me that a good deal of what you post is "rude".
5) Yeah, you know, you REALLY should work on that innocent-looking thing.
6) Again: No proof which atheists accept. What a shock! Kinda like creationists don't accept the theory of evolution....
7) Indeed, it often (though not always) does. There HAVE been good kings. Though absolute power is a poor description of the Church of this day and age, let alone other corrupt "Christianity".
8) I don't really know if that's true. Being raised in a Christian family, going to a Christian church, and calling yourself a Christian does NOT make it so.
9) Nothing proven? And, you Can NOT prove that something does not exist.

1) lol
2) I do not begrudge people their belief systems. They can believe what they want. I chose to believe in what is proven as fact and not believe in something that makes no sense to me.
3) I have no idea what you are asking.
4) sorry you feel that way.
5) I'll work on it, thanks.
6) *sigh*
7) agreed.
8) If you met my family, you would understand what I was talking about. Some are not so religious. Others are fanatical and nuts. My sister is quite upset that I do not practice Catholocism. She hounds me incessantly. She asked me, last Easter, what I gave up for Lent. I said not a f**king thing. She was quite upset.
9) *sigh, again*

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
But you do see how someone has the right to take away from the person who they are? This seems to me worse, but to each his own.

Absolutely. Coney suggestion would be deemed unconstitutional - as it has been, because it used to be practiced. Coney's form of punishment would be determined as "cruel and unusual punishment"

[Coney]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Coney, do you believe in an individual's right to take his or her own life?

Yeesh Lief, a person taking their own life is a pretty deep thing.........I honestly don't think I have a right decide if that is right or wrong, I only think it's a great shame that some people think they have take that step.

I wasn't saying you can't have your opinions or even state them. But you have no say in our laws and calling our laws barbaric is only because you don't understand them. You take an extreme example which doesn't even occur anymore because you are ignorant of America.

No JD, I took an example of a law that actually exists in America..lemme ask you a question. If, in accordance to the law, a 16 yr old was hanged by the neck tomorrow......what would the public opinion be?

Absolutely. Coney suggestion would be deemed unconstitutional - as it has been, because it used to be practiced. Coney's form of punishment would be determined as "cruel and unusual punishment"

I should hope it would........in fact, gimme ten minutes in a small room with a serial rapist and I'll show all how cruel and unusual punishment can get..........what can I say? I'm a barbarian.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Coney
I should hope it would........in fact, gimme ten minutes in a small room with a serial rapist and I'll show all how cruel and unusual punishment can get..........what can I say? I'm a barbarian.

I don't get it, Coney. Why do you think killing is so horrible? You think man has no right to deprive another of life, but man does have the right to torture? To ruin a life far worse than death could do? I don't see how your opinions on the death penalty fits with your opinions of what you'd replace it with.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
1) lol
2) I do not begrudge people their belief systems. They can believe what they want. I chose to believe in what is proven as fact and not believe in something that makes no sense to me.
3) I have no idea what you are asking.
4) sorry you feel that way.
5) I'll work on it, thanks.
6) *sigh*
7) agreed.
8) If you met my family, you would understand what I was talking about. Some are not so religious. Others are fanatical and nuts. My sister is quite upset that I do not practice Catholocism. She hounds me incessantly. She asked me, last Easter, what I gave up for Lent. I said not a f**king thing. She was quite upset.
9) *sigh, again*

2) Again: I was directing that to HOBBIT, not to you.
3) This also was meant for HOBBIT. I meant: Why is it, that if something is not interesting to him, it is not interesting to anyone.
7) Erhem, in response to MY post on this: I realised this sounds rather anti-Catholic. I didn't mean it like that... I meant only that there IS corruption in the Catholic Church, not that all of it is corrupt, or indeed even most.
8) Oy. I don't believe she is a true Christian; as I've said before, only an empty shell; the ritual without the real FAITH (by which I do not mean belief, but something deeper, which I can't really describe any better than that, on account of being dimwitted ).

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
No JD, I took an example of a law that actually exists in America..lemme ask you a question. If, in accordance to the law, a 16 yr old was hanged by the neck tomorrow......what would the public opinion be?

See that's where your ignorance shows up. First of all - getting 12 people to agree with that wouldn't happen. If it did happen - there would be a huge outcry - second - there would be appeal after appeal. It would be taken all the way up to the Supreme Court. Maybe if you learned a little bit about how American justice system works - then just maybe you wouldn't make such assinine statements and ridiculous scenarios.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
I don't get it, Coney. Why do you think killing is so horrible? You think man has no right to deprive another of life, but man does have the right to torture? To ruin a life far worse than death could do? I don't see how your opinions on the death penalty fits with your opinions of what you'd replace it with.

It's quite simple Lief........"Thou shalt not kill". I'm not a christian but I have not trouble adhering to that commandment.

And yes, my punishment would make a rapist or child abusers life a living hell..........which is exactly what they do to their victims. I'm a big believer in "you reap what you sow"........ and if I had my way, I'd make sure sex-offenders did.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
2) Again: I was directing that to HOBBIT, not to you.
3) This also was meant for HOBBIT. I meant: Why is it, that if something is not interesting to him, it is not interesting to anyone.
7) Erhem, in response to MY post on this: I realised this sounds rather anti-Catholic. I didn't mean it like that... I meant only that there IS corruption in the Catholic Church, not that all of it is corrupt, or indeed even most.
8) Oy. I don't believe she is a true Christian; as I've said before, only an empty shell; the ritual without the real FAITH (by which I do not mean belief, but something deeper, which I can't really describe any better than that, on account of being dimwitted ).

2) ok.
3) ok.
7) Because the Catholic Church was around longer.
8) Nah... she's a true Christian all right. There's always meaning behind the rituals. She's pretty devout.

Don't sell yourself short. I've read your posts. Trust me on this one, I've read posts far more dimwitted than yours. errr... that's not what I meant. You are not dimwitted.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
See that's where your ignorance shows up. First of all - getting 12 people to agree with that wouldn't happen. If it did happen - there would be a huge outcry - second - there would be appeal after appeal. It would be taken all the way up to the Supreme Court. Maybe if you learned a little bit about how American justice system works - then just maybe you wouldn't make such assinine statements and ridiculous scenarios.

But you don't think there would be a call to change the law?

Here's the bite JD.............that ridiculous scenario could actually happen, and the law supports it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
It's quite simple Lief........"Thou shalt not kill". I'm not a christian but I have not trouble adhering to that commandment.

And yes, my punishment would make a rapist or child abusers life a living hell..........which is exactly what they do to their victims. I'm a big believer in "you reap what you sow"........ and if I had my way, I'd make sure sex-offenders did.

But what if someone kills another? Then, do you think they should be killed?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Coney
No JD, I took an example of a law that actually exists in America..lemme ask you a question. If, in accordance to the law, a 16 yr old was hanged by the neck tomorrow......what would the public opinion be?

*sigh* Coney... I've explained this to you already. Oh, and I see that JD has also.

There are no states that hang 16 year olds. The law does NOT support that. The law allows for the accused and convicted who has been sentenced to the death penalty numerous appeals.

Do you understand? Maybe it's the wording that I'm using. If you don't understand, let me know. I'll see if I can put it a different way.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
But what if someone kills another? Then, do you think they should be killed?

Who would kill them? Where would it end?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
But you don't think there would be a call to change the law?

There would be a call to change the law if it happened. It would also depend on the circumstances. Most 16 year olds are intelligent enough to know right from wrong and if the crime was horrendous enough - they would support the death penalty. Just like most people support the death penatly for the 17 year old sniper who actually said he laughed when he blew one woman's head apart.

Here's the bite JD.............that ridiculous scenario could actually happen, and the law supports it.

Yes it could - that's why we have an appeals system as well as requiring all 12 jurors to agree.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Ruinel
*sigh* Coney... I've explained this to you already. Oh, and I see that JD has also.

There are no states that hang 16 year olds. The law does NOT support that. The law allows for the accused and convicted who has been sentenced to the death penalty numerous appeals.

Do you understand? Maybe it's the wording that I'm using. If you don't understand, let me know. I'll see if I can put it a different way.

Ok, let me put it another way........What if a 16 yr old were sentenced to be hanged, it might take 30 yrs of going through appeals, taken to a higher court etc etc..........but the sentence has still been served.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
Who would kill them? Where would it end?

And who will make your life a living hell, for doing the same to them?

Just like most people support the death penatly for the 17 year old sniper who actually said he laughed when he blew one woman's head apart.

Oh my gosh! That's awful!

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
There would be a call to change the law if it happened. It would also depend on the circumstances. Most 16 year olds are intelligent enough to know right from wrong and if the crime was horrendous enough - they would support the death penalty. Just like most people support the death penatly for the 17 year old sniper who actually said he laughed when he blew one woman's head apart.

Yes it could - that's why we have an appeals system as well as requiring all 12 jurors to agree.

Thank you.

Now do you see why I described that punishment as barbaric?......... I presumed that most of America would agree that hanging is an outdated and inhumane way to kill someone.

It shocked the hell out of me when I saw it on the internet site Sheeana linked to, in fact I'm sure it surprised you as well.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Ok, let me put it another way........What if a 16 yr old were sentenced to be hanged, it might take 30 yrs of going through appeals, taken to a higher court etc etc..........but the sentence has still been served.

Not if it's overturned though. And if it makes it through the appeals process - then the courts and the people have determined that the crime was horrendous enough for the sentence to be served. You see how that works now?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
And who will make your life a living hell, for doing the same to them?

That's a risk I'd have to take, I'm a believer in fate.......I'd prolly contract some crippling disease or something :/

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Coney
Who would kill them? Where would it end?

Ah, I have now drawn the conclusion that your "reap what you sow three times over" idea isn't similar to the Golden Rule at all. Thanks for enlightening me .

Do you think that every soldier who has killed someone in a war should be killed?

Also, who would torture back the person who tortures the criminal? If everyone gets back what they give to someone else, anyone who administers justice will get pummeled.