Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Coney]

Originally posted by Ruinel
I have no problem telling a serial rapist and killer that he's going to be put to death, by whatever means. You think that someone who brutally tortures other human beings and then slowly kills them should be released into society? Or even kept in prison for the remainder of their lives with other inmates? How about someone who brutally rapes little boys and then slits their throats dumping their bodies into a shallow grave in the woods. Their mothers and fathers never knowing what happened to them. No, I have no problem telling them, whatever age, that they are going to be put to death for their actions.

But happy? No... I would rather these terrible crimes never happened at all.

I remember talkin' about this with someone in another thread, but I can't be arsed to track down a link.

Personally I don't agree with the death sentence, I don't think any man has the right to take the life of another man.

Also I think in cases like you've mentioned above that death is too good for them........My method would be to put them in a mental hospital......sedate them so heavily that they become a dribbling, incontinent mess that cannot control their own limbs or communicate effectively but leave just enough coherence in the brain so they remember who they are and what they have done. But then I have a real cruel streak where things like that are concerned.

Punish them humanely.......you'll find it's often more cruel than the barbaric way

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elven Archer
i think the firing squad is still done though. seems like i heard about it on the news last week.

There isn't fire squads either. We kill either through electricution or lethal injection.

Coney - see you have no say in our laws here. And yes - there are lot of blue laws. I personally don't care what Texas does or here. As I have explained to you REPEATEDLY - our laws are state laws. We have state rights - and the death penalty is left up to the states - this is protected by the Constitution. The Constitution protects from cruel and unusual punishment - the rest is left up to the states.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Coney - see you have no say in our laws here.

You're right......hang on a mo' I'll just go an telephone Amnesty International to remind them that if they are not a fully paid-up citizen of every country in the world then they should do nothing to prevent atrocities that are commited under the guise of the law

And yes - there are lot of blue laws. I personally don't care what Texas does or here. As I have explained to you REPEATEDLY - our laws are state laws. We have state rights - and the death penalty is left up to the states - this is protected by the Constitution. The Constitution protects from cruel and unusual punishment - the rest is left up to the states.

Like I said, more power to you...............I find the law that allows a sixteen yr old to be hung to death distastefull..........wether that stems from the law in an individual state, or from a whole country.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Coney
Personally I don't agree with the death sentence, I don't think any man has the right to take the life of another man.

Also I think in cases like you've mentioned above that death is too good for them........My method would be to put them in a mental hospital......sedate them so heavily that they become a dribbling, incontinent mess that cannot control their own limbs or communicate effectively but leave just enough coherence in the brain so they remember who they are and what they have done. But then I have a real cruel streak where things like that are concerned.

Punish them humanely.......you'll find it's often more cruel than the barbaric way

I do not agree with using the death penalty for anything less than what it was originally intended for. I have a problem with taking someone's life as well. The death penalty is not a deterrent to crime, IMO.

Unfortunately, that can't be done here. As JD pointed out, the Constitution of the US prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. That is why the death penalty has been changed over the years. And that is why the preferred method of putting a heinous criminal to death is lethal injection. It is supposedly does not cause pain, whereas electrocution, hanging, firing squad, etc, does.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Coney
Like I said, more power to you...............I find the law that allows a sixteen yr old to be hung to death distastefull..........wether that stems from the law in an individual state, or from a whole country.

hmmm... I'm just wondering. Are you reading the posts all the way through?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
*big obvious sigh*
First of all, I was saying that it was a book written by Man, not a deity. It is therefore, not the word of a god.

Yikes! I didn't know anything you said was automatically true!

just prove that the bible is the word of god, if you can (which you obviously can't, because if anyone could there would be no athiests).

And....why do you say that? Has not evolution been "proven"? Yet there are creationists.

what are you posting now only interests you. sorry, but no one really cares about all that.

Erhem. I beg to differ. Why is it that because you aren't interested, no-one is?

1) L.E.... you poor, ignorant fool.... You think that I am mocking you? Wow... let me tell you something... you don't know me very well. I am being quite restrained right now. 2) If I were to outright mock you. You would be crying in a heap on the floor, with soiled pants, by your computer right now, sobbing and begging for mercy. Do NOT in any way mistake those previous posts for mockery, just because I do not agree with your views and because I have posted information which questions your beliefs. 3) What I post is fact, not fiction, buddy.

4) Now I'll tell you, I do understand something about religion. I understand that it has been used for thousands of years to keep some people down and some people up. It has been used to keep an elite population in power and to justify horrific acts of violence against individuals.

It is amazing how the churches all tell their parishioners how much they need money. Please give to the poor, please give for this needy cause, and that needy cause. And then you show up and there's another statue to all the aborted fetuses. Or some new addition is being built for the church. Or something else they had to buy to make their own lives a little better, not the poor. Or something else that has nothing to do with helping people in their misery.

5) And you have the balls to tell me I have no understanding of Christianity?!!! I have plenty of understanding!!! 6) And NO! There isn't any supernatural being!!! I believe in fact, not fairy tales.

So, no one is mocking you, yet! Although, that can be arranged if you so desire it. Get your head out of your bible and pay attention!!!

1) Well, I think that you're little "coffee with God" could pretty easily be seen as mockery.
2) No, that's flame.
3) In your opinion. (sidenote trivia: If I remember correctly, there is no word in the Russian language for "opinion".)
4) You understand that it has been misused. As does pretty well everyone.
5) If you refer to the above, that is not an understanding of Christianity, but of what it has been used for. Please, do NOT equate the two.
6) Again, that is your belief.

I don't think this comes off as rude, sorry if it does.

[Coney]

Unfortunately, that can't be done here. As JD pointed out, the Constitution of the US prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.

I don't know if it can be done here either, that was what I would personally do to them.

Actually I missed a bit off the end.........after they had become a dribbling, paraplegic zombie........then I'd release them into the general prison population for the rest of their days.

[Elven Archer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
There isn't fire squads either. We kill either through electricution or lethal injection.

are you sure? that link BoP posted said Utah has one. and i heard something on the radio about Utah and a firing squad about a week or so ago. i'm not sure what they said about it though so i'll shut up now.

Maybe ya'll should revive the death penalty thread.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Ruinel
hmmm... I'm just wondering. Are you reading the posts all the way through?

To be honest, I don't usually bother reading JD's post's all the way through.......he invariably repeats himself time and time again.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
You're right......hang on a mo' I'll just go an telephone Amnesty International to remind them that if they are not a fully paid-up citizen of every country in the world then they should do nothing to prevent atrocities that are commited under the guise of the law

We don't have a dicatorship that just kills people for the sake of it. What we do within the borders of OUR is by the people.

Like I said, more power to you...............I find the law that allows a sixteen yr old to be hung to death distastefull..........wether that stems from the law in an individual state, or from a whole country.

Sorry - but I do know that England DOES have blue laws. I've read some of your laws. And it's fine that you find capital punishment distasteful - many people in the US do too. But they are in the minority. 70% of Americans support the death penalty and since you don't live here, as I have repeatedly told you, you have no say in our laws.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
To be honest, I don't usually bother reading JD's post's all the way through.......he invariably repeats himself time and time again.

It's sort of what you do and since you can't get it through head that you don't live here - it takes a lot of banging to make you get the point.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Yikes! I didn't know anything you said was automatically true!

Of course it is, silly.

And....why do you say that? Has not evolution been "proven"? Yet there are creationists.

Yes, it has. Through mounds and mounds of evidence.

Erhem. I beg to differ. Why is it that because you aren't interested, no-one is?

because we were having a perfectly respectable discussion and now it's being drowned in LE's posts about how old the bible is. Looks like spam to me.

1) Well, I think that you're little "coffee with God" could pretty easily be seen as mockery.
2) No, that's flame.
3) In your opinion. (sidenote trivia: If I remember correctly, there is no word in the Russian language for "opinion".)
4) You understand that it has been misused. As does pretty well everyone.
5) If you refer to the above, that is not an understanding of Christianity, but of what it has been used for. Please, do NOT equate the two.
6) Again, that is your belief.

I don't think this comes off as rude, sorry if it does.

1) I was sick of the in-your-face evagelical christian thing. It was rude.
2) hehehe... *tries to look innocent*
3) No... evolution is a fact. There is no proven existence of a deity that made the universe. There is however evidence of quarks, leptons, etc. Those are facts.
4) Yes, I do understand that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
5) I do not. He said I have no understanding of religion or christianity and I do. I have personally experienced it.
6) no.... fact... nothing proven.

[Coney]

as I have repeatedly told you, you have no say in our laws.

See what I mean?

Lets get something straight here JD.......it's true, I have no power to change or influence your laws..........I neither had any power to change or influence the law of South Africa while it practised a Apartheid.......nobody had except those who lived in South Africa......Now if the entire international community thought that they had no right to criticise the then South African government, where would SA be now? Should everyone keep their opinions of every other country to themselves? Maybe we should censor newspapers so they only carry stories of everyones respective national news......heaven forbid if anyone should have an opinion about a foreign country.

Sorry - but I do know that England DOES have blue laws. I've read some of your laws. And it's fine that you find capital punishment distasteful

That's totally fair enough, you don't like some of the UK's laws........I don't like some of your's.......If you are happy with the way your law works, fine. I really don't see what you are getting so excited about.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
I remember talkin' about this with someone in another thread, but I can't be arsed to track down a link.

1) Personally I don't agree with the death sentence, I don't think any man has the right to take the life of another man.

Also I think in cases like you've mentioned above that death is too good for them........My method would be to put them in a mental hospital......sedate them so heavily that they become a dribbling, incontinent mess that cannot control their own limbs or communicate effectively but leave just enough coherence in the brain so they remember who they are and what they have done. But then I have a real cruel streak where things like that are concerned.

2) Punish them humanely.......you'll find it's often more cruel than the barbaric way

1) So, you don't have the right to take another's life, but you do have the right to completely destroy him, crush any dignity he has, and be far crueller than an injection, or electrocution, or any execution method used?

2) Okaaaaay, that doesn't make sense to me....seems to be that "humane" is characterized by mercy, compassion, kindness, etc.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Coney
...I neither had any power to change or influence the law of South Africa while it practised a Apartheid.......

What in the hell are you talking about, now? You have completely lost me. What does this have to do with the death penalty in the US? You are way off on a tangent.

*sends the sheep dogs around Coney to herd him back into the correct pasture*

lol

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
1) So, you don't have the right to take another's life, but you do have the right to completely destroy him, crush any dignity he has, and be far crueller than an injection, or electrocution, or any execution method used?

2) Okaaaaay, that doesn't make sense to me....seems to be that "humane" is characterized by mercy, compassion, kindness, etc.

It works like this Gwaimer.......people should be punished for terrible acts, that I have absolutely no problem with......and in the case of rapists and child abusers I have no problem with the punishment being as harsh as possible.

What I do have a problem with is killing someone in the name of the law.........I don't see how anyone has the right to take the life of another.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Ruinel
What in the hell are you talking about, now? You have completely lost me. What does this have to do with the death penalty in the US? You are way off on a tangent.

*sends the sheep dogs around Coney to herd him back into the correct pasture*

lol

The point of the post was not to equate modern america with SA.........The point is that JD is implying that I should have no opinion about American law because I don't live there........and if this same idea were used against Apartheid, communism, dictatorships, religious persecution, famine etc that occurs in countries around the world then there would be no international community, no aid for the poorer countries of this world......and we'd all be living in blind ignorance.........probably still wondering if the USSR would be dropping their bombs today.

EDIT: this thread has gone way off course ('tis the curse of Coney).......Admins yer can delete my post's if yer like.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
1) Of course it is, silly.


2) Yes, it has. Through mounds and mounds of evidence.


3) because we were having a perfectly respectable discussion and now it's being drowned in LE's posts about how old the bible is. Looks like spam to me.


4) I was sick of the in-your-face evagelical christian thing. It was rude.
5) hehehe... *tries to look innocent*
6) No... evolution is a fact. There is no proven existence of a deity that made the universe. There is however evidence of quarks, leptons, etc. Those are facts.
7) Yes, I do understand that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
8) I do not. He said I have no understanding of religion or christianity and I do. I have personally experienced it.
9) no.... fact... nothing proven.

1) Prove it.
2) It has been "proven" to you. Yet, there are creationists. But if it were possible to prove the existence of the Bible, then there would be no atheists. Why is this? Is it that people who refuse to believe in anything that they cannot see, touch, smell, hear, or taste (in some instances with greatly amplified sense) are very open-minded etc., whereas people who can accept the existence of something bigger than themselves, or which is not proven, are close-minded, primitive bigots?

Oh yes: Quiet you! I wasn't talking to you.
3) That has nothing to do with the question: if it is not interesting to some, why does that make it uninteresting to any?

4) It seems to me that a good deal of what you post is "rude".
5) Yeah, you know, you REALLY should work on that innocent-looking thing.
6) Again: No proof which atheists accept. What a shock! Kinda like creationists don't accept the theory of evolution....
7) Indeed, it often (though not always) does. There HAVE been good kings. Though absolute power is a poor description of the Church of this day and age, let alone other corrupt "Christianity".
8) I don't really know if that's true. Being raised in a Christian family, going to a Christian church, and calling yourself a Christian does NOT make it so.
9) Nothing proven? And, you Can NOT prove that something does not exist.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
It works like this Gwaimer.......people should be punished for terrible acts, that I have absolutely no problem with......and in the case of rapists and child abusers I have no problem with the punishment being as harsh as possible.

What I do have a problem with is killing someone in the name of the law.........I don't see how anyone has the right to take the life of another.

But you do see how someone has the right to take away from the person who they are? This seems to me worse, but to each his own.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
The point of the post was not to equate modern america with SA.........The point is that JD is implying that I should have no opinion about American law because I don't live there........

I wasn't saying you can't have your opinions or even state them. But you have no say in our laws and calling our laws barbaric is only because you don't understand them. You take an extreme example which doesn't even occur anymore because you are ignorant of America.