01-14-2005, 01:50 PM | #1021 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But I don't want to focus on that rabbit trail, because brownie is in the "hot seat" (see first post) right now Good to see ya, tho!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 01:52 PM | #1022 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(great post, inky!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 01:57 PM | #1023 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 02:04 PM | #1024 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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It is my opinion that that belief would create apathy in many (tho not all) people. This is based on knowing that it would create apathy in me, and that there are people similar to me ( poor twits ) out there. I need to base my decisions on MY opinion (after careful thought, and reference to knowledgeable sources when available). If your opinion differs, then I hope you would base your actions on your opinion, and not the opinion of others (and I think you would do this). (and btw, yes, I think it would be good to watch the sarcastic humor - at least make it a little clearer - it's SO hard on the internet to tell "how" people are talking - most of communication is non-verbal, and all we have are words, and a few smilies! We want to know what you really mean, so please help us all you can! )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 02:19 PM | #1025 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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good is what good does, and, as i understand it, the christian pov is that we all are responsible for and can control "what we do" this is not to say that the bible can not help some people (though i would say it is the stories that help, not the author behind them)... but i can't see how it could be seen as a necessary element... and, if it is, then we are not as "free" as you claim we are Quote:
you do this yourself... you've stated before that you don't just live a christian lifestyle 'cause "the bible says so"... you live it 'cause it makes sense to you... it jives with what you see in the world... i trust the sincerity in your statement... do you trust the sincerity in mine? i have a question for you (if those on the hotseat can ask ), is there any "guideline" in the bible that you follow only because the bible says so? one that doesn't really make sense to you at any other level, but you accept because it is scripture you and i are probably 95% in agreement on most moral issues... the ones we differ on tend to be the new and untested... homosexual marriage, active sex education and distribution of birth control at a young age, etc. when i approach these issues, i look at the long-term social pros and cons... i don't pretend to know the best answer, no one does yet... but i think there is a value to constantly reassessing society's approach to such things... 100 years ago just being gay, or at least the practice of it, was illegal throughout much of the country... now we argue the relatively minor detail of marriage
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-14-2005, 02:41 PM | #1026 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
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He did not necessarily say that "The Matrix is reality." He was giving a generation-appropriate image to help us visualize what "brain in a vat" is equal to. It was supposed to help some of the students struggling with the concept. "Brain in a vat? What? What is that/how would you do that?" Teaching the history of a subject in such a way that your students understand it does not necessarily mean you believe it to be true. I am still taught about Freud's methodology, even though much of his practice is now considered obsolete/incorrect, because it is an important historical aspect of psychology.
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 01-14-2005 at 02:43 PM. |
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01-14-2005, 02:47 PM | #1027 | |
Elf Lord
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I am short...this is determined through genetics. Certain choices I made in the past (intake of caffeine during my growing years, my posture) may effect my ultimate height, but I could never be six feet tall, because there is a genetic RESTRICTION. I am sucspetible to many disorders...namely depression, OCD and alcoholism. This is not through any choice of mine, and I cannot control the recurring symptoms of OCD because the chemistry in my brain is mildly screwed up (unless I use medication, but I am not so far along I need that). I can choose to learn how to cope with the thoughts, but that doesn't change the fact that I am genetically predisposed to OCD. I can choose not to drink often, and carefully monitor how much alcohol I drink to counter the effects of the possible alcoholism, but I can't change the fact that I am genetically predisposed to alcoholism. ANd so on and so forth. That's what I meant. :-D
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
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01-14-2005, 04:05 PM | #1028 | |
Elf Lord
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which is it, brownjenkins: the good of society or self interest?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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01-14-2005, 04:15 PM | #1029 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And yes, I stand by that comment about my kids. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 04:17 PM | #1030 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 04:20 PM | #1031 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-14-2005, 04:20 PM | #1032 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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"Starr Polish, But I didn't misunderstand you! I replied in kind! Sorry to have seemed to have missed the boat on that but I thought my tongue-in-cheek was way over the top! I clearly hear what you were saying, I think. That's why I felt free to have a little fun!" Now, you may have all the genetic predispositions in the world. Some may be related to choices you make and some may not. In the former you may avoid activities or behaviours that will put you in the higher risk because you know the latter, i.e., avoid alcohol, take appropriate medications when indicated for symptoms, avoid situations and activities that increase your OCD or depression, accept your stature limitations. In those influencable activities your actions make an impact on the expression of the potential. BUT, it also true that your response to the "fixed" expressions is a CHOICE. You can spend your life on Procruste's bed in an attempt to become taller, you can mope about caffeine's effect et alia, you could volunteer for implants like Wolverine in X-men, or you could graciously be yourself at your height. I think what you mean is that the choices available maybe restricted by genetics in some people differently than others, but choices remain. There is no iron determinism that renders human choice and will ineffective in the manner of "IT's not my fault; it's my genes". One's response is always within one's purview. Which doesn't mean that it's not a convenient excuse to cop out with!' Determinism does not reach the will nor the soul, merely the physical.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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01-14-2005, 04:46 PM | #1033 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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if you think of them separately, i.e. only what is good for the self, or only what is good for society, you miss the full picture the "best" course of action is one that balances these two perspectives... and it is important to note that there is no "ultimate" here... culture, technology, even climate can effect what is best for any given point on the globe
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-14-2005, 04:53 PM | #1034 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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you said it was essential for one to sincerely express their belief in god in order to go to heaven... and in fact, someone who lived a not-so-virtuous life, yet truly repented an expressed their belief would also go to heaven... unlike the non-christian, who would not go no matter how virtuous his life is that correct? (if not as eloquent as your statements)
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-14-2005, 05:11 PM | #1035 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
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turning to an italian teacher to learn to speak italian better makes sense, since i do not know italian at all and i would assume the teacher would turning to god to be a better person does not... i already know how to be a good person... and if i wanted to be more of one i'd "mentor" with someone who had some pretty good qualifications... it's a matter of interpretation for sure, but the biblical god does not hit me as being terribly "good" as far as i'm concerned... i'd personally have gone about many things quite differently i can't accept a hypothetical with no basis in reason... if you wanted to say, "reading the bible can make you a better person", i'll buy that... it's got some good stories and lessons on life i assume the basis for your question is "would i continue to do stuff the way i thought was right just 'cause i thought of it"... to that, i would say no... i've read many religious and philosophical texts, and i owe many of my beliefs to what i've gotten from them... and i'm sure i'll read, hear and discuss more throughout my life that will change the way i view any specific situation
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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01-14-2005, 06:09 PM | #1036 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Is Russia on the Asian continent - yes or no? If yes, isn't Moscow in Russia? If no, isn't Omsk in Russia? This question about Russia, like Rag's question, is not a valid yes or no question - it needs more defining. I'm into truth, not games. His question is quite a good one, IMO, and deserves an answer that is carefully thought out and expressed, so I didn't give a quick, inaccurate one. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-14-2005 at 06:12 PM. |
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01-14-2005, 06:18 PM | #1037 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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(NB - I really should use the subjunctive tense and say, "If atheism were true ... ". Those who know what the subjunctive tense is will get the joke ) Quote:
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So would you please do me the favor of assuming for a moment that assumption about God, even tho you think it is false, and re-answering the question? Pretty please?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 01-14-2005 at 06:20 PM. |
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01-15-2005, 03:37 AM | #1038 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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browns - a quick thought before I check out for the weekend ...
I just finished watching a new version of "The Miracle Worker" (the story of Helen Keller) tonight with the kids - bawled my eyes out! I get so embarassed, but I can't help it - it's just beautiful how they overcame so much. My question to you - given your worldview, why should Anne Sullivan have bothered with Helen Keller? I mean, Helen would never have known she was missing anything if they just left her wild. Was it a good thing what Anne did with her? Was it "right"? Would it have been a tragedy for Helen to have been left in her wild state, without communication? Why or why not? (and please, please, please answer my other questions in the post above this one!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-15-2005, 04:02 AM | #1039 | |
The Dude
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Location: at the altar of my ego
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, |
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01-15-2005, 02:23 PM | #1040 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Christ said that he came not to abolish the law (or to abolish justice), but to fulfill the law. He comes into people's lives and transforms them completely from inside out. Their behavior changes, their actions change. They act with grace, truth and love. Unfortunately this is not common for all Christians. A huge number of Christians don't have this real committed relationship with Christ, and many of them are not noticeably different from anyone else. Jesus was relentless in his call to morality and good living. It wasn't just a, "I forgive everyone," policy. To me more important then asking God for forgiveness for my sins (though I do that too) is asking him to show me how I can change so that I am no longer acting in those ways. So anyway, believing in Christ is what leads to a person being able to be counted as one of the righteous that will be saved on Judgment Day. The person believes. When they believe, they open the door for Christ to change them. When Christ changes them, their actions reflect Christ. Christ commanded us, "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." That transformation begins to take place in this life when the person believes in Christ, and I believe the completion of it takes place in heaven, before the Last Day. On the Last Day, everyone will be either utterly righteous or utterly wicked- having driven God completely out of their lives. I think that when a nonbeliever does good and righteous things in this life, their actions are from and through God. I'm out of time. Bye . Must go this second . . .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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