04-21-2003, 07:23 PM | #1001 |
FloraAzul
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We aren't invading them to get it! That was my point overall!
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04-21-2003, 07:37 PM | #1002 |
Lurker
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And my point is that your defense is faulty. You want to say that we don't NEED to get our oil from Iraq, not that we don't. *pops out once and for all*
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04-21-2003, 07:57 PM | #1003 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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What we need to do is convert away from an oil based economy. That will hit them where it really hurts.
Iraq was allowed to export oil during the sanctions. It's that Bechtel wasn't allowed to build a new pipeline. Now they have a big juicy contract for reconstruction, and you know that means they get to buikld that pipeline after all. And how does Bechtel tie in to the fortunes of the Bush family? Stay tuned, all will be revealed in due time.
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04-22-2003, 01:38 AM | #1004 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - as Leif said - you can't negotiate with every evil regime. I will add that the terrorist problem is originating FROM the Middle East. The only way for the US to solve the terrorist problem is to fix the problems of that region. The US had to make a strong stand against Iraq. You may not recall the tapes of Osama bin Ladin - he was saying we were weak. Well this sort of proved that we weren't. The Middle East had better do somerhing about their sponsorship of terror in the world - or else Iraq isn't going to be the only one facing problems from America. We're not going to invade everyone of course - but the Middle East is now on notice - clean up your act and give freedom to your people. That is the only way to combat Middle Eastern terrorism.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 03:01 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 01:46 AM | #1005 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 03:03 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 01:59 AM | #1006 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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We don't really need the Iraqi oil - the same old line was used when we liberated Kuwait too. it's time to put it to rest. if the US wanted the Middle Eastern oil - we could disemated the entire region and just take all of it and eliminate OPEC.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 02:56 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 02:09 AM | #1007 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-22-2003, 02:13 AM | #1008 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-22-2003, 02:17 AM | #1009 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Oh and if the last two statements were slights towards me - then you really don't know what your talking about there either. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 02:52 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 02:18 AM | #1010 | ||
Elf Lord
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04-22-2003, 02:25 AM | #1011 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Oh also - in order to do away with a "oil based" economy. You better stop using your computer, buying garbage bags, I hope you have no carpet in your house or get any magazines. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 02:48 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 02:33 AM | #1012 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-22-2003, 02:58 AM | #1013 | |||
Elf Lord
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The Jewish expulsions of the Palestinians and occupying and settling of Palestinian lands has been well documented, and it's not made up. Quote:
Is it any wonder Israel has made itself a source of hatred and anger throughout the Islamic world? And the Muslim religion, you might be interested to know, emphasizes justice and protection of your Muslim brothers. That's one reason why all those Syrians and Iranians were coming into Iraq to help fight the coalition forces. So is it any wonder that they are distrustful and angry also at Israel's allies? Just about all of Israel's military equipment was U.S. made and its personell U.S. trained. I can continue on present day evidence for the existence of Israel's continued policy of aggression if you wish. Have you really studied this issue very much? I don't mean to be rude, jerseydevil, and I know you're usually very strongly backed up by historical evidence in what you say. But it seems like you're not fully aware of a large aspect of the conflict and a strong reason for the current situation with Israel. |
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04-22-2003, 03:44 AM | #1014 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I would recommend these books... A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Arab and Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land The Jewish expulsions of the Palestinians and occupying and settling of Palestinian lands has been well documented, and it's not made up. Quote:
I also did say in one of my posts that the reason why terrorism flourishes in the Middle East is from the poverty (or actually the uneven distribution of wealth). Also - I don't see how that allows it be accwetable for people to blow up buses, restaurants, malls, etc. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 03:51 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 03:46 AM | #1015 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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It's amazing how Palestinians before the recent conflict over the past three years were able to freely work in Israel. Even today - many Palestinians LIVE in Israel - side by side with Jews and other ethinic groups.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-22-2003 at 03:49 AM. |
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04-22-2003, 04:01 AM | #1016 |
Elf Lord
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I'll hopefully respond tomorrow; it's getting to be too late for me now.
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04-22-2003, 04:07 AM | #1017 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-22-2003, 12:29 PM | #1018 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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No respect for bullies.
You didn't elect the UN? I didn't elect Bush. This united we stand nonsense only flies when your guy is in office. When my guy is in office your people are spending all their time muckraking. So don't think I will ever stand united with you. The implication that people who want peace are unpatriotic is likewise a bully tactic. I won't stand with a bully. You should stand united with ME when I say we should take the moral high ground!
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cya |
04-22-2003, 02:27 PM | #1019 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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One time and one time only will I waste my breath bandying words with this flag waver.
"the Constitution ends at our borders." I was replying to someone else telling me that democracy is not about providing a forum for negotiating through problems. Your response is out of context. "you can't negotiate with every evil regime." Evil is an easy word to use. "The only way for the US to solve the terrorist problem is to fix the problems of that region." I will repeat that the problem is that people are choosing to fight rather than negotiate. Fighting them back, especially when they are so good at hiding, will not solve the problem. The problem is in their heads. They must learn to negotiate. You can't force someone to be nice. "The US had to make a strong stand against Iraq. You may not recall the tapes of Osama bin Ladin - he was saying we were weak. Well this sort of proved that we weren't." Sticks and stones... Shall we attack anyone who calls us weak? "The Middle East had better do somerhing about their sponsorship of terror in the world - or else Iraq isn't going to be the only one facing problems from America. We're not going to invade everyone of course - but the Middle East is now on notice - clean up your act and give freedom to your people." They want freedom, but their definition is different from ours. They want to be free to have Shaira law, which permits stonings for having an opinion different from your cleric. "you might want to learn some things" This trope is getting boring. You say it to anyone who disagrees with you. It sounds like "learning" means agreeing with you. Obviously you believe so strongly that you are right that any of us who think differently must be unlearned. In my opinion, you should learn about the misuse of the written word to manipulate public opinion. "if the Arab countries didn't start the war in the first place" Laying blame will not stop the conflict. We moved them there after WWII as displaced people. Who cares? Only the future holds the hope of resolution. The past is just cause for more conflict. "I don't elect my representatives to worry about England or France or Japan or Australia before worrying about me." I never said "before" I said work together. "Or do you actually support that the UN voted Iraq to Chair the Disarmament Committee or Libya to Chair the Human Rights Committee?" Degonaweda invited the snake man to the council. You can't build a nation without the snake man. "I elected our representatives in Washington. The UN doesn't have the US interests in mind when they do things. So why should we put our faith in the UN?" US interests above the interests of the world? So you are showing your true colors, then? "What are you talking about? All those countries in the Middle East ARE members of the UN." We are not at war with all the countries of the Middle East, are we? "The reason why their are terrorist is because their countries have no freedom. They have huge poverty levels. They have fundamentalist clerics who brainwash them to believe all their problems are becuase of the west and Israel." So now the rights of those people does matter to you? To my mind, caring about people only when it affects yourself is called hypocrisy. "I don't really think you know what your talking about" The Muslims almost made it to Paris. They were turned back at Poitiers. Then the Pope offered remission of sins to the King of France if he would drive the infidel from the Holy Lands, etc, etc, etc... It's all about insane religious fanatics hating each other, and the West is just as guilty as the Middle East. "it has to do with the fact that terrorist who attack the US are from the ENTIRE region of the Middle East." So you are saying that we are at war with all Arabs? "Oh - you mean that Poland would actually rather buy ADVANCED weaponry from the strongest country in history of the world than from a country who has hardly ever won a war? That is amazing and highly suspect." Funny. I never said it was suspect. I said it was a fine marketing ploy. "And do you know anything about fuel cells? Where do you think they get their power from?" Yes, it would take all the money we wasted on bombs to make fuel cells viable. "And your proof of this is where?" I made a prediction about the lashback effect of Bush throwing our money away. I believe time will prove me right. There is no other proof or disproof of a prediction. "I question if you know how social security actually works." It is such a tiresome little tactic. I'm sure others see that you use and use and use the same nonsensical non-argument, too.
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cya |
04-22-2003, 02:31 PM | #1020 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Then I said:
What we need to do is convert away from an oil based economy. "One of the main causes of terrorism is actually the level of povery in those countries. Or in all actuality the lopsided distribution of wealth. The leaders of Al Qaeda are wealthy - but the 'soldiers' are mostly poor with no future. Except for israel the Middle East has about 50% unemployment rate." So you are saying we have to keep our oil-based economy and drive our gas guzzling monstrosities in order to help those poor people in the Middle East? Because that's what it looks like you're saying. "in order to do away with a "oil based" economy. You better stop using your computer, buying garbage bags, I hope you have no carpet in your house or get any magazines." Yes, we're all aware that plastics come from oil. What does that have to do with converting our energy source? "Iraq was only supposed to be exporting oil in excahnge for money for food - which Hussein was syphoning off and putting it into outside accounts and not using it for the Iraqi like it was meant to be." My point was that the sanctions only hurt the poor people. I don't see how you disagree. "Also -Bechtel isn't building a pipeline. The Iraqi oil wells are in deplorable shape - they have to be refurbished and fixed in order for iraq to produce the amount of oil they were 30 years ago. There are already pipelines extending to Turkey and Syria (not sure about Kuwait) from Iraq. Bechtel's responsibility is to get the wells into working order, which is the only thing that will build up Iraq's economy right now." But the point is, why Bechtel? The answer is out there, time will tell. So we brought them freedom? I could have supported the ousting of Saddam if the President had told us who he was going to replace him with. My biggest fear has been that he's just created a power vaccuum for the religious extremists to fill, which is nothing short of counterproductive. Oh look, there's a million Shiites in Baghdad screaming "death to America" today. Well, that really worked out backasswards!! p.s. With all your flag waving, I would like to know if you ever backed up that flag by volunteering for service.
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