04-26-2004, 01:25 PM | #1001 |
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Sounds like a sly twist on the fear that many young earth creationists have about science (and particularly evolution) which poke massive holes in the literal interpretation of the bible. Creationists sometimes turn this argument around and say well if [standard scientific/evolutionary argument] can be shown to have errors or weaknesses then the whole thing can come tumbling down and the only alternative is the god model! And although Rian is usually more rational then that and doesnt usually come off as a literalist it is a huge joke to even think that errors in date readings could somehow directly lead to the proof that there is a god. I must have missed the logic jump on that one.
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04-26-2004, 01:38 PM | #1002 |
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There is physical evidence to support creationism, as I listed in my summary post. Just to bring up one area - genetic data, IMO, strongly supports creationism. As I pointed out, we've done lots and lots of breeding, and as we breed to bring out characteristics, we find that genetic info is LOST, and viability DECREASES, and susceptibility to disease INCREASES, and the type stays the same. All of this supports creationism more than evolutionism.
--------------------------------- My use of the word "chances" was a poor choice. Obviously God either exists or doesn't exist; what I meant was the "chance" or "probability of it being true" in people's minds would increase if they admitted any problem areas in evolutionism. If people think evolutionism is just iron-clad true and proven, then they are less likely to consider the possibility of the existence of God, with all its uncomfortable implications. And that is a strong motivator to be biased towards evolutionism. Really, the thought that it's a warm, fuzzy thing to think that God exists, and that's why people make Him up in their minds, is rather silly IMO, if you think about it. The idea that an incredibly powerful God who made the universe is also the One that put the moral law into our heart that we find ourselves violating continually and is also the One that is uncomfortably persnikity about rightfully punishing those who break the law is ... comforting? It's more comfortable to think that you come from some unknown bit of goo and that there's no absolute truth, IMO. But uncomfortableness shouldn't stop us from holding whatever opinion we think, based on the available evidence, is true. (the comforting part of Christianity is that God has provided Jesus to pay the rightful penalty that we have incurred - if we choose to accept the payment with its implications. But the part before this is definitely NOT comforting.)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-26-2004, 01:40 PM | #1003 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-26-2004, 01:44 PM | #1004 | |
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But IIRC, you just turned 18, right? I don't see how you can be accomplished in all these fields (at least as far as university degrees), if that's the case, altho I don't doubt that you're well-read in the areas, if that's what you mean.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-26-2004, 02:07 PM | #1005 | |
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and even if you buy creationism, the question becomes, "created by what?" one god, two gods, a race of beings from an alternative dimension? i have yet to see any evidence that points to the nature of this creator
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04-26-2004, 02:19 PM | #1006 | |
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gtg ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-26-2004, 02:48 PM | #1007 | |
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04-26-2004, 02:50 PM | #1008 | |
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04-26-2004, 03:07 PM | #1009 | |
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04-26-2004, 03:19 PM | #1010 | |
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btw ~ evolution doesn't DEMAND change... many organisms have changed very little over an enormous period of time... instead it tries to explain why some have changed... it seems to me that you are not necessarily challenging evolution, but challenging the idea that organisms that inhabit this planet have changed over time at all, irregardless of the method... am i correct?
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04-26-2004, 04:59 PM | #1011 | |
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but these are all examples that we have used in exam work, the same exams that i have double A standard in. Of course, you have more knowledge, and i have (on many threads) stated how poorly i actualy word my posts, so i apologise once more, but i hope people see my reasonign, anyway |
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04-26-2004, 05:29 PM | #1012 |
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No problem chrys. Just be a bit more wary when throwing around credentials. One of the first things my stage one human evolution lecturer said was, "Unlearn everything you learnt in High School, as it is all rubbish." Mayhaps a bit harsh, but you will see when you go to university, that high school education is grossly oversimplified. ::shrug::
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04-26-2004, 05:33 PM | #1013 | |
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keep me busy for two years, i suppose! (either that or kill me! lol) |
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04-26-2004, 06:33 PM | #1014 |
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G'luck Chrys, I'm sure you will do well.
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04-26-2004, 06:38 PM | #1015 | |
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04-26-2004, 08:36 PM | #1016 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-26-2004, 08:39 PM | #1017 | |
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and I won't be going to uni for at least 2 years i have got to go to college first, and get good a-levels |
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04-26-2004, 08:47 PM | #1018 | |||
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j/k! j/k! There's no such book as Hezekiah in the Bible, but it sounds like one, doesn't it! It's based on the statements about animals reproducing according to their kinds. Also, that there was no death until man sinned, and evolution requires scads of death before you even get anywhere close to man. Quote:
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It's only a subset of the changes that are covered in evolutionism that I have problems with, not all. That subset generally falls under the description of macroevolution, or as I say, one-celled-thingy to man.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-26-2004, 10:23 PM | #1019 | |
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04-27-2004, 10:54 AM | #1020 |
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I'm still having a good chuckle about the Mt. St. Helen's rock.
So, we have a rock that some radiometric test or tests were run, that yielded inaccurate results. This proves that one must assume the age prior to testing? Nice straw man. All it proves is that sloppy science yields sloppy results. Where is the paper on the results including the methods used? Here is a sample of what a typical research paper should look like. Methodogy, duplicates, premise, actual test results; these are critical in legitimate science. Which test or tests were run? What is the expected precision and accuracy of the test(s) on rhyolitic volcanic rock? We know the accuracy of Ur/Pb is best with basalt since it most closely resembles the mantle. How does this sample compare with similar samples from this site and similar sites of different age? Once again even throwing out radiometric dating completely, the earth is still caculated to be exponentially older than YEC claims by all other methods. However, we won't be throwing out one of the valuable tools of science based on a Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum display. YEC's gaping failure is an inability to produce even the tiniest shread of physical evidence that the earth is only 10-12,000 years old. This is a fatal flaw since it is part of the founding hypothesis. You may imagine magical scenarios where god makes things appear, and time changes, and physical laws have no meaning, but that is not a scientific theory without some physical evidence.
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