REAL debate thread for RELIGION

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Mercutio
as we are all different, and i
believe that people will determine
for themselves what the right
religion for them is.

I'm sort of half way in between on this; I believe that there is One True Faith, namely, the Catholic faith. Most faiths have same truth in them.

While there is One True Faith, there are many different equally valid ways of expressing this faith; for instance, the Roman rite, the Ambrosian rite, the Byzantine rite, the Maronite rite, the Syrian rite, and so on and so forth.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Those are the traditionally given authors; most modern scholars adhere to the 'Mark plus Q' theory.

What do you mean by the "Mark plus Q" theory?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

"Q" is a theoretical text which scholars (non-Christian or liberal Christian generally) claim was the source for certain other Gospel texts.

[Mercutio]

Would that be the "Quelle" (translated = "source")?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It seems to ring true, but I'm hardly a scholar, so I don't know.

[Valandil]

Hi GM! Did you see my PM?

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Would that be the "Quelle" (translated = "source")?

Yeah, that's it.

2.1 What is the Two Source Hypothesis (2SH)?
The 2SH adopts the Markan priority hypothesis for the triple tradition and the Q hypothesis for the double tradition. Accordingly, Mark was written first among the synoptics. Matthew and Luke independently copied Mark for its narrative framework (the Triple Tradition) and independently added discourse material from a non-extant sayings source called "Q" for German Quelle, 'source'.

Despite recent challenges, the 2SH remains the dominant synoptic theory today among New Testament scholars for most of the 19th century and throughout the 20th century. Lately much attention has been devoted to studying Q and its own history of composition.

http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/index.html

And where Matthew and Luke add to Mark they offer differing and often contradictory accounts, as in the Nativity.

[Esswen]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
no, there is no such thing as
One True Religion
as we are all different, and i
believe that people will determine
for themselves what the right
religion for them is.

to quote someone (can't remember who):

If there was one and only one religion on the planet then it might be possible to generalise and talk about 'one true religion' but where there are many religions, doesn't that fact cause that term to be pretty much meaningless?

Just my opinion

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Esswen
If there was one and only one religion on the planet then it might be possible to generalise and talk about 'one true religion' but where there are many religions, doesn't that fact cause that term to be pretty much meaningless?

Just my opinion

my point exactly
we all have different tastes,
and must satisfy our tastes each in our own way

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
my point exactly
we all have different tastes,
and must satisfy our tastes each in our own way

Ah... the 'Smorgasboard Search for Truth'???

[brownjenkins]

“The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.�

~ Niels Bohr
20th century Danish physicist

[Valandil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
“The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.�

~ Niels Bohr
20th century Danish physicist

Well... MAYBE. I personally don't think so, but I don't want to debate today. Probably shouldn't have 'ribbed' those two, but was feeling irrepressibly mischievous.

Happy Good Friday - to you who observe it! And Happy Easter soon after!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well... MAYBE. I personally don't think so, but I don't want to debate today. Probably shouldn't have 'ribbed' those two, but was feeling irrepressibly mischievous.

Happy Good Friday - to you who observe it! And Happy Easter soon after!

happy easter to you, val, and all other christians.
seems strange to celebrate someone's death if you ask me,
but, it's your religion!

what d'you mean by 'ribbed'?
do you mean tease, or poke fun at, perchance?

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
what d'you mean by 'ribbed'?
do you mean tease, or poke fun at, perchance?

Yes, that's the meaning. I believe it comes from the notion of elbowing someone in the ribs (quite gently though)... as when sharing a joke or something.

As for Easter... that's technically a celebration of Jesus' Resurrection! His overcoming both Sin and Death! His own death on the cross, while a horrible thing for Him, opened a glorious Hope for us... and He submitted himself to it out of Love for us and for His Father. So by His death we can be forgiven for our sins... and by His resurrection, He demonstrates to us the New Life we can have in Him.

THAT'S what we're celebrating!

[brownjenkins]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well... MAYBE. I personally don't think so, but I don't want to debate today. Probably shouldn't have 'ribbed' those two, but was feeling irrepressibly mischievous.

Happy Good Friday - to you who observe it! And Happy Easter soon after!

no problem... just keeping up my devil's advocacy (i miss rÃ*an )

and yes... happy easter... we don't do much outside the bunny stuff, but the wife's step father is greek, and greek easter falls on the same day this year... which means lots of good food and conversation on sunday

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Valandil
Ah... the 'Smorgasboard Search for Truth'???

Well... yes!
The truth is different for everyone. Or at least, people's perception of the truth is different, depending on what truth you're talking about.

Nice quote Brownie! Yea Niels Bohr, the Bohr model of the atom!

[Mercutio]

Someting in today's newspaper appropriate for the Christians around here...

[Esswen]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Well... yes!
The truth is different for everyone. Or at least, people's perception of the truth is different, depending on what truth you're talking about.

I tend to think that's because we're each, subjective, having an original (and let's face it, selfish) standpoint from which to view the world, my interests for example always being at odds, even fractionally, with the person I'm closest to. We're none of us conscripted to exactly the same bias (this sometimes loosely called 'the truth').

[And despite my assertion that the phrase "one true religion" doesn't work for me ... "one truth" does, - I speculate, but I think our universe probably operates in line with one set of natural laws - the extent of which even scientists are unaware.]

And tentatively ( until someone demolishes my argument ) 'selfish' is not especially a dirty word. Given that a total lack of selfishness would maybe produce a person who is altogether naive and easily led, without opinions, convictions, direction or self-determination - instead being the 'fuel for the fire' to further the aims of the less than scrupulous.

Perhaps the individual seeking (and finding) a balance somewhere between the two states, selfish/ unselfish would be the key to provide for communal harmony (which surely would be one aim of religion, wouldn't it?). Even selfishness having its uses since it's the other end of the spectrum to selflessness.

The negative needed to provide a behavioural spectrum, giving us a range of movement choices.

*climbs down from her soapbox*

[Esswen]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Someting in today's newspaper appropriate for the Christians around here...

I thought the cartoon was irreverent, cynical, insensitive, (funny) and it leans towards why Good Friday might be named this way, based on what I've heard (and thought sounded reasonable) that Christ's resurrection was 'good news'.

Ergo, Good Friday celebrates Christ (prospectively) demonstrating that physical death is not an end to life.

(Am I allowed to mention Tolkien here? Who proferred the thought in The Silmarillion that death might be a release from a burdensome life.)

It's like a friend of mine once said, though, What do people think they're going to do with themselves for all eternity?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Esswen


(Am I allowed to mention Tolkien here? Who proferred the thought in The Silmarillion that death might be a release from a burdensome life.)

ahh, but don't forget that Tolkien was a fervent Catholic, and the Catholic standpoint is that we were never ment to die. I think that Tolkien liked the idea (for a story) just to have something different, than everlasting life.