07-13-2007, 04:51 PM | #981 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
good point, but if it helps even a few places to clean up, then it's worth it. If some word-of-mouth gets around about a sub-par clinic, then at least there's some more recourse for people.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
07-13-2007, 06:33 PM | #982 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Quote:
Would this mean that hospitals that perform abortions can't provide sex ed to schools? I don't know why anyone would think that limiting sex ed to people ignorant of biology was a step forward for anyone. but people are strange.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
|
07-13-2007, 06:47 PM | #983 | |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
Posts: 6,433
|
Quote:
I'm not quite sure how you got any of that from Rian's quote... |
|
07-13-2007, 10:14 PM | #984 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Quote:
The second remark (about hospitals and limiting sex ed) is about the law itself, from the link she posted. Sorry for the confusion.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May Last edited by sisterandcousinandaunt : 07-13-2007 at 11:56 PM. |
|
07-14-2007, 06:02 AM | #985 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
Posts: 6,433
|
Ah, no apology required--my own fault for not reading the link. I only checked it to see it was linked to something correct . Sorry about that!
|
07-15-2007, 10:32 PM | #986 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
Quote:
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
07-16-2007, 09:28 PM | #987 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Oh, you could be surprised. Gov Blunt also signed into law a bill which allows "nationally certified" midwives to do home deliveries with NO MEDICAL TRAINING WHATSOEVER. The law doesn't define "nationally certified" either, so no help there.
Wonder what that'll do to infant and maternal mortality? But it's not called the show me state for nuthin'.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
07-17-2007, 05:26 AM | #988 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
That's pretty common practice in some European countries (e.g. UK, Holland). You can elect to have your kids at home, and the health service will provide a midwife for you. The Dutch even provide a doula-type helper who hangs around for a couple of weeks doing your washing and cooking so you can get used to the bairn. Dunno if there's any evidence on mortality, but I assume that if there was a significant difference it would have been looked into. US infant mortality is about 6 or 7 per 1,000; it's 5 or 6 on UK and Holland. Last edited by The Gaffer : 07-17-2007 at 05:36 AM. |
07-17-2007, 01:15 PM | #989 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
And it's adult behavior.
Adults commonly have liberties that aren't available to minors. Places with certified midwives doing homebirth have good statistics, but they aren't part of the AMA system, it's true. Certainly homebirth (whether midwife assisted or otherwise) isn't the best option for every birthing mother.
Kind of off topic, I think.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
07-17-2007, 04:01 PM | #990 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
no kidding!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
07-17-2007, 08:24 PM | #991 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
I thought the topic was government regulation of pregnancy related services.
The manicurists threw me off. Regulation of abortion clinics to outpatient surgical service standards is appropriate. They are doing outpatient surgery, after all, aren't they? And they do require medically trained personnel to do the procedures. My point about the midwife legislation in MO is that it dispenses with the requirement for medical training. I suspect that the midwives in the European countries mentioned above do have such training - as all should have.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
07-17-2007, 11:02 PM | #992 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Well, these abortions aren't mostly surgical. Perfectly easy to do with some plumbing pipe and a bicycle pump.
Midwives everywhere have training that varies.... as doctors do.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
07-17-2007, 11:34 PM | #993 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Midwives everywhere DO NOT have MEDICAL training, sacaa. And for a long time and still any many places about the globe neither do abortionists. Which regulation was intended to correct in first world countries and which regulation has continued to upgrade even in first world countries.
PS I'm not bashing midwives btw, merely the inadequacy of the MO regulation to assure consumers that they have MEDICAL training under the new law.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
07-18-2007, 05:34 AM | #994 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Yes, they are trained and certified by the Royal College of Midwives, though they are not medics in that they don't have the same decision making / prescribing powers as doctors. A decision to do a Caesarian would still have to be made by an Ob/Gyn.
I suspect that their greater role in pregnancy here has much to do with the fact that they get paid less. My wife is due to drop on about 3 weeks and she has seen two doctors (two visits to her GP, sorry, family practitioner) throughout the entire pregnancy, lasting a total of 15 minutes. |
07-18-2007, 09:00 AM | #995 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Quote:
Plenty of doctors can legally 'deliver babies" who have very little training in the progress of normal birth. Similarly, midwives may have training that you don't recognise as "medical" that might be appropriate to the situation, as the consumer determines. And while there are a lot of women who aren't smart enough to evaluate care providers, there are legislators (and doctors) who aren't any smarter. Since the women will be permitted (and in MO, forced) to raise their children, we'll have to permit them to start making the call sometime, won't we?
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
|
07-18-2007, 09:02 AM | #996 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Hey Gaffer!
Quote:
July and August are both great times for babies, albeit warm. A sweet labor to the 3 of you.
__________________
That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
|
07-18-2007, 11:32 AM | #997 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Thanks! Fingers crossed... and tank of nitrous kept handy no doubt!
|
07-18-2007, 04:26 PM | #998 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
Pretty close in age to the last bairn, right? Or has time flown faster than I realized? Anyway, congrats!!! And prayers that labor & delivery are a piece of cake!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
07-19-2007, 08:54 AM | #999 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Thanks SHaron!
Next one is 3 at the end of August, so hopefully not too much friction in store. The air is fine up here, it's the manky grey crap that's obscured the sun since about April that's nippin ma heid. No doubt I will keep you posted (probably not in a thread about Abortion ), now that the mystery gremlins are letting me back on the moot. |
07-20-2007, 10:30 AM | #1000 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
The problem still comes back to how well the regulation actually works. Regulated doctors in regulated hospitals are still involved in countless questionable practices from unnecessary surgery and medication to just plain carelessness.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Religion and Individualism | Beren3000 | General Messages | 311 | 04-17-2012 10:07 PM |
Abortion and Handguns | Aeryn | General Messages | 256 | 01-31-2003 01:39 AM |
Abortion | Gwaimir Windgem | General Messages | 9 | 01-28-2003 11:05 PM |
Let Gandalf smite the Abortion thread! | Gilthalion | General Messages | 7 | 08-27-2000 02:52 PM |
Abortion | dmaul97 | Entmoot Archive | 83 | 08-27-2000 01:25 PM |