Abortion.

[Rían]

good point, but if it helps even a few places to clean up, then it's worth it. If some word-of-mouth gets around about a sub-par clinic, then at least there's some more recourse for people.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Finally, a step towards licensing abortion clinics. Right now, there's usually more regulations for manicurists than abortion providers.

Well, that statement is plain nonsense.

Would this mean that hospitals that perform abortions can't provide sex ed to schools?

I don't know why anyone would think that limiting sex ed to people ignorant of biology was a step forward for anyone. but people are strange.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Well, that statement is plain nonsense.

Would this mean that hospitals that perform abortions can't provide sex ed to schools?

I don't know why anyone would think that limiting sex ed to people ignorant of biology was a step forward for anyone. but people are strange.

I'm not quite sure how you got any of that from Rian's quote...

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I'm not quite sure how you got any of that from Rian's quote...

I didn't. The statement that manicurists have more regulations than abortion providers is nonsense.

The second remark (about hospitals and limiting sex ed) is about the law itself, from the link she posted.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Tessar]

Ah, no apology required--my own fault for not reading the link. I only checked it to see it was linked to something correct . Sorry about that!

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

The statement that manicurists have more regulations than abortion providers is nonsense.

I bet they have nicer nails though!

[inked]

Oh, you could be surprised. Gov Blunt also signed into law a bill which allows "nationally certified" midwives to do home deliveries with NO MEDICAL TRAINING WHATSOEVER. The law doesn't define "nationally certified" either, so no help there.

Wonder what that'll do to infant and maternal mortality? But it's not called the show me state for nuthin'.

[The Gaffer]

That's pretty common practice in some European countries (e.g. UK, Holland). You can elect to have your kids at home, and the health service will provide a midwife for you.

The Dutch even provide a doula-type helper who hangs around for a couple of weeks doing your washing and cooking so you can get used to the bairn.

Dunno if there's any evidence on mortality, but I assume that if there was a significant difference it would have been looked into. US infant mortality is about 6 or 7 per 1,000; it's 5 or 6 on UK and Holland.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Adults commonly have liberties that aren't available to minors. Places with certified midwives doing homebirth have good statistics, but they aren't part of the AMA system, it's true. Certainly homebirth (whether midwife assisted or otherwise) isn't the best option for every birthing mother.

Kind of off topic, I think.

[Rían]

no kidding!

[inked]

I thought the topic was government regulation of pregnancy related services.

The manicurists threw me off.

Regulation of abortion clinics to outpatient surgical service standards is appropriate. They are doing outpatient surgery, after all, aren't they? And they do require medically trained personnel to do the procedures.

My point about the midwife legislation in MO is that it dispenses with the requirement for medical training. I suspect that the midwives in the European countries mentioned above do have such training - as all should have.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Well, these abortions aren't mostly surgical. Perfectly easy to do with some plumbing pipe and a bicycle pump.

Midwives everywhere have training that varies.... as doctors do.

[inked]

Midwives everywhere DO NOT have MEDICAL training, sacaa. And for a long time and still any many places about the globe neither do abortionists. Which regulation was intended to correct in first world countries and which regulation has continued to upgrade even in first world countries.

PS I'm not bashing midwives btw, merely the inadequacy of the MO regulation to assure consumers that they have MEDICAL training under the new law.

[The Gaffer]

Yes, they are trained and certified by the Royal College of Midwives, though they are not medics in that they don't have the same decision making / prescribing powers as doctors. A decision to do a Caesarian would still have to be made by an Ob/Gyn.

I suspect that their greater role in pregnancy here has much to do with the fact that they get paid less. My wife is due to drop on about 3 weeks and she has seen two doctors (two visits to her GP, sorry, family practitioner) throughout the entire pregnancy, lasting a total of 15 minutes.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by inked

Midwives everywhere DO NOT have MEDICAL training, sacaa. And for a long time and still any many places about the globe neither do abortionists. Which regulation was intended to correct in first world countries and which regulation has continued to upgrade even in first world countries.

PS I'm not bashing midwives btw, merely the inadequacy of the MO regulation to assure consumers that they have MEDICAL training under the new law.

I just doubt that we'd agree what, and whose, training was relevant. I said midwives, as doctors, have training that varies. This is true.

Plenty of doctors can legally 'deliver babies" who have very little training in the progress of normal birth. Similarly, midwives may have training that you don't recognise as "medical" that might be appropriate to the situation, as the consumer determines. And while there are a lot of women who aren't smart enough to evaluate care providers, there are legislators (and doctors) who aren't any smarter. Since the women will be permitted (and in MO, forced) to raise their children, we'll have to permit them to start making the call sometime, won't we?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

My wife is due to drop on about 3 weeks and she has seen two doctors (two visits to her GP, sorry, family practitioner) throughout the entire pregnancy, lasting a total of 15 minutes.

Congrats! I didn't realize.
July and August are both great times for babies, albeit warm.

A sweet labor to the 3 of you.

[The Gaffer]

Thanks! Fingers crossed... and tank of nitrous kept handy no doubt!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

My wife is due to drop on about 3 weeks ...

Air up in Scotland agree with you two?

Pretty close in age to the last bairn, right? Or has time flown faster than I realized?

Anyway, congrats!!! And prayers that labor & delivery are a piece of cake!

[The Gaffer]

Thanks SHaron!

Next one is 3 at the end of August, so hopefully not too much friction in store.

The air is fine up here, it's the manky grey crap that's obscured the sun since about April that's nippin ma heid.

No doubt I will keep you posted (probably not in a thread about Abortion ), now that the mystery gremlins are letting me back on the moot.

[brownjenkins]

The problem still comes back to how well the regulation actually works. Regulated doctors in regulated hospitals are still involved in countless questionable practices from unnecessary surgery and medication to just plain carelessness.