Considering closing GM

[Tar-Elendil]

In Darth Tater's opinion, a newbie is someone who registered after December 19th

in this newbs opinion, thats stupid..the whole concept of calling someone a "newbie" for nearly half a year is just dumb..

[Menelvagor]

Afro-elf said it best.

Originally posted by afro-elf
hey hobbit maybe it might make better sense with this anology

you open a store that specializes in tolkien goods and you have other things too. After awhile everybody have bought most of your tolkien stuff and start buying other things. people still come to the store to hang out and buy stuff but not as much tolkien.

the owners say hey this is a tolkien speciality store, so we want you to by tolkien stuff.

The constomer says yes but we've bought most of your tolkien stuff we like your store we still wanna come but there's only so much tolkien stock

the owners say it doesn't matter what you think we are gonna close the general goods

the customers say ok we can buy are general goods at other stores


then the customers are called dis-loyal


that's BS

[HOBBIT]

oh

[Ben]

Ben enjoys kissing peoples buts you see But come on man, you don't even read the board, and you only post when an issue like this comes up, I think those of us in the administration who are actually around have a better grasp of the issues. I was undecided, and this thread has helped me make up my mind, thanks ya'll!

Well that's not quite accurate. I read the board daily - I just don't post as much as I used to, due to a hectic school/band schedule. There have been many months when you were a no-show. At times, some of us have lives outside of Entmoot . I think in a way, that allows me to see this issue from a different perspective. While I don't always agree with some of his decisions, I think Comic Book Guy is doing a great job keeping the LotR forums tidy. Yet I can see how constantly cleaning up newbies' "messes" would affect his perceptions of new users.

Also, I really do care about the users. Maybe it's because I'm not around them enough, like you said . But I don't want to alienate anyone or make them feel unwelcome at Entmoot, because this has always been a welcoming kind of place. I don't think that brusque comments help matters.

I like the concept of General Messages, as Tristan said.. Afro-elf's well-stated analogy really sums up my current feelings on this issue. I agree that some "reforms" are necessary to curb some of the recent excesses, but scrapping the whole forum seems extreme. If you cut your arm, you bandage it, not amputate it.

If you (the users) can think of some ways to successfully regulate GM to the satisfaction of the users and the administration, please feel free to post them here. In my opinion, an open dialogue between the administration and the users is vital to forming efficient, fair, and popular policies. Obviously the admins make the final decision, but announcing that the users' opinions will have absolutely no impact on our decisions is awfully rude. Our fake Tater demotion and the events of April 1st show how ineffective a sudden administrative decision would be. Discussing it with the users would allow them to voice their concerns before drastic action is taken.

Now closing LotR Movies would be just plain ridiculous. That would transform us into an elitist board overnight. We've never been elite - Entmoot has always been a place where Tolkien neophytes, casual fans, and Tolkien scholars could get together, discuss Middle-earth and socialize. There are other places that have a more intellectual angle to the discussion, and still more that are just "I love Orlando." The movies are a hot topic, and for good reason. Depriving the fans a chance to talk about Peter Jackson's masterpieces would be foolish and spiteful.

I just think we should fix the problems rather than write them off only to see them re-appear in other forums.

[Lizra]

I'm sorry I read this. I feel all "stifled" now. Sorry If I said anything "stupid". Ick!

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
GM should not be a place where you can post the first thing that comes into your mind " I like cofffeeeee!!!" "I like tea!!!!!!"

BUT

Talk about anything you want in this forum

Okay, then.

Perhaps you should post up some guidelines as to what YOU consider to be acceptable fodder to talk about then.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by frodosgirlfriend


if there wasn't a movie form alot of ppl wouldn't be here who r just starting to know Tolkien. So what if I don't study Tolkien every body has to start somehow, and that movie started it for me. I'm sorry if I'm not a true Tolkien fan, but I'm becoming one. if there wasn't a movie I wouldn't even know who the heck Tolkien was.

I wasn't directing that at you or any other people that found entmoot and Tolkien through the movies.I just think the thing that keeps being brought up are complaints about the "newbies". The Movie forum is the thing that brings the "element" that seems to be the problem to Entmoot.

I do think that without the General Messages - entmoot will be a lot more boring. There won't be any political discussions, religious discussions, no birthday wishes.

This is my own feeling - I think that a lot of the administrators of entmoot just wish entmoot was made up of only die hard Tolkien fans.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by bmilder

Now closing LotR Movies would be just plain ridiculous. That would transform us into an elitist board overnight. We've never been elite - Entmoot has always been a place where Tolkien neophytes, casual fans, and Tolkien scholars could get together, discuss Middle-earth and socialize. There are other places that have a more intellectual angle to the discussion, and still more that are just "I love Orlando." The movies are a hot topic, and for good reason. Depriving the fans a chance to talk about Peter Jackson's masterpieces would be foolish and spiteful.

I was being sarcastic when I suggested closing the Movie forum. I just didn't feel like putting any smiley faces on it.

[afro-elf]

And if you think that going to another board just for the general messages would work - dont be rediculous. Hey lets use your shop analogy. You go to another store for general things because your tolkien store has stopped supplying it. This other store is also supposed to be mainly a tolkien store (crossroads of arda). You buy the general items and then you nottice the tolkien items. Then you get too lazy to go back to the original store (entmoot) and just buy tolkien items at the new store.

a)That is just a standard slippery slope argument. why stop there? Why not continue your logical fallacy to so more non sequitor conclusions?

it is a NOT necessary NOR sufficient condition that because we go to crossroads that will stop coming here.

saying "hey rogue elf we could all just move to the crossroads of arda" does not imply that you would only go over for the general messages. It would make anyone infer that you mean leave the board and go over there. I did not 'misunderstand' what you said, as you did not really say just for general messages before. You cannot asume that we can all read your mind.

b) you DID misunderstand. It was an ambigous statement. YOU took the meaning that I was not refering to. Not only that it was an ELLIPTICAL statement. Which you also missed. I see in your omnipotence that you KNOW EVERYONE would infer the same way you would. Therefore you did misunderstand. You CAN justify it by claiming the inferences given where not clear. But You did not get in simple.

However, I will admit it should have spelled it out more clearly.

An even if it was meant to leave this board see below.


your loyality concept is interesting

Is that being loyal? NO

It seems that for you loyal equates BLIND alliegence, no matter what. Why don't use your slippery slope non sequitor arguments here.

hell since anologies seem to be reigning today maybe we can transform this thread into the funniest slippery slope non sequitar arguement thread

Seriously, it could be fun

BUT i guess we wouldn't be talking about tolkein then


SIMPLY there is only so much we can scoop out of tolkien.

HOBBIT i DO agree that the board as some what degerated. There were a lot of great posters here that are gone. I do miss those discussions. BUT MAYBE they left because there's not that much else to talk about.

If you feel that the tolkien side is slowing down. why don't YOU post some threads there that might inspire others.

You want loyality, why not earn it. lead by example.

maybe respect is apart of being loyal. you are often a condensing prig.

do you want kow towing mooters

or do want people to come to your " silly" bit of cyber space because they enjoy it.


what happened after the 12/19 we got al lot of teeny poppers oozing over wood and bloom

Is that what you envisioned here? I really do not know.

maybe during the holidays for the next couple of years you could have a who's cuter thread wood or bloom

hey it would be about tolkien or at least in the tolkein section

If you wanna close do the GM section. fine its your board.



HOWEVER IT IS POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD LOSE LOYAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE STAYED ON YOUR SILLY LITTLE BOARD WHEN TOLKIEN RAN DRY


if this was a store it would be those who didn't go elsewhere when your tolkien product ran out that would have keep you business afloat

you call us dis- loyal

it seem your brother got the gandalf genes and you the saruman one

at least i closed on tolkien

[Earniel]

You gotta love this place, soooo many crisises, if it isn't the 'pink and purple' day, its 'apil's fool' or the 'light of evil'crisis and now this one.... well I've been here through all of them and I for one plan to stay.

*starts singing* entmoot was my first board, and it will be my last...*gets hit by fellowmooters*

Okay so far my failed attempt to lighten up the mood here... The entmoot was indeed the first message-board I entered and I use it therefore as a reference to any other I visited since. So far I haven't found anything that can replace it on the same level. I don't WANT to find myself another board to post GM-messages on.

I made a habbit (nearly wrote hobbit) of reading every thread I post on from the beginning to the end. I really do, I think it's only fair. I've read the entire theism and anti-theist thread. I've read the entire thread regarding name, age, siblings etc... It doesn't however mean that I remember all that was posted before and that I won't say things twice.

I may be still a newbie, well I like it that way. It's nice to find something new once in a while on the entmoot. I revel in my newbieness But I try to keep my spamming in check and not to offend any one intentionally. I've grown attached to the entmoot and I have no intention of going anywhere else sometime soon (except for a holiday after my exams but that's still 2 months off)

So if you decide to close GM, I'll still be here. With less posts perhaps, yes, but from what I read here, I'll doubt any one will notice or care. What I'm trying to say is: if you close GM, I'll accept it, I won't like it but you admins and mods go through all the trouble to keep this board in check so it is really your call. I would however prefer the suggested temporal closure of GM. Maybe it shows us just how important GM is and maybe we'll respect it more. I would miss it, I know now, but I prefer losing GM only temporarily above for ever.

But I would also like some clear rules then about what is allowed in GM and what isn't. We need clear guidelines on that one. We can't really be expected to know what the admin-definition of GM is if you don't tell us.

[Cirdan]

I like being a newbie. There are few places, except maybe a nursing home, where I could be called that, since I have shoes older than most of you and read JRRT before you were born, and was on the Internet while you were in underoos.

But I understand your pov. The aniti-theist thread was a bear to keep up with as a poster, much less as an admin. That would explain the misalignment of our povs and it's content. I found, to the contrary, that most of the posts were very responsive and on-topic. Being so large, it was difficult for "thread newbies" to read it in it's entirety, so there may have been redundant posts. It is a complex and emotional topic.

As others have stated, I won't visit as often if the GM is closed completely. I think it would be more prudent to kill threds if you think they are trivial (very subjective approach, were is Blackheart?).

We are at your mercy.

Oh, and I really like Star Wars, but it's not a great film, just historically significant in special effects, and entertaining as well.

[StrawberryIcecream]

Originally posted by aldesign
someone after Dec19th aee.
well some of us read the books and liked Tokien before that, just it wasnt untill the movie came out that we relised we should search the net for other Ringers.

andy

EXACTLY!
My point exactly! I read the Hobbit at ten years old before some of you oldies probably even had heard of it and yet i am called a newbie and constantly thought of as just in a phase because i saw the films.

[aldesign]

cheers Strawberry, im the same.

btw
Bmilder, u asked for some solutions:

1. (before u read this first one, IT HAS BEEN STATED BY OTHER POSTS IN THIS THREAD, and i dont want to take credit)
= take a leaf out of the TookTalk book, and have a permanent thread at the top of the GM section for new memebers: ie a Welcome thread, or Introduce Yourself Here thread.

Then we wont be over-run with the same "Hi im new" type threads, in which all the regular members run off on a metal spamming rampage trying to scare the newbie.


2. It has become quite clear, that u dont want to shut the Gm, but the other bosses are still deciding. Well, as it has been said many a time, if the GM thread goes, the general-stuff with just leak into the other forums and make the situation worse.
Its up to you, as boss, to put ur foot down and not let them close the GM thread.


that was only really 1.Point, but never mind.

andy

[StrawberryIcecream]

Originally posted by aldesign

that was only really 1.Point, but never mind.

andy

but it was a good one.

[Radagast The Brown]

I think that most of the GM forums are "Hi I'm new" threads and this is bad, but there's nothing to do with that right now. I think you (the moderators) could close all the "I'm new" threads and this will solve part of the problams. If you want that the forums of Tolkien will be the "important" forums in the board you SHOULD close the GM. That, I think, the right solution. If the "I'm new" threads will be in the LOTR forum (example) close it. But I prefer the GM open. I don't care if the forum of LOTR doesn't secced. I think that these forums aren't less important then the LOTR ones. SO I think you should close the "i'm new" threads and do, like aldesign said, a new thread of the new mooters that want to say "Hi I'm new" or something.

[BeardofPants]

It's been said before: post some guidelines on what is a non-redundant GM thread. That way, we know WHY a thread is being closed.

Target spammers with a grading warning system if they start up a thread/spam within a thread.

Maybe post some new topics in the Tolkien section. It's been said before, but I'll say it again, the reason people are gravitating towards the GM thread is because they've pretty much exhausted the current ones.

I'm with JD on this one, I don't really visit the LOTR movie thread, so I wouldn't really miss it. However, there are some who do, so it's not conducive to drop it.

A bit of patience with newbies is required. You run something like this, you gotta expect an influx of people around the release of the movies. This can be a good thing. They bring new ideas/approaches, and prevent the board from going stale.

That's all I've got for the moment.

[HOBBIT]

Would you newbs () stop talking about closing movie forum?? NO ONE IN THE ADMINISTRATION SAID ANYTHING ABOUT CLOSING THE LOTR MOVIE FORUM OR ANY OTHER BESIDES GENERAL MESSAGES!!! are you listening?

Non-redundant seems pretty self-explanitory to me. If there has already been a topic discussing the same thing, then its redundant. Maybe look the word up in a dictionary. There is an extremely easy to use search system two clicks away that 99% of all the newbs here do not use.

And we do tell excessive spammers messages to not post as much. But in several cases, they ignore them.....

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Non-redundant seems pretty self-explanitory to me. If there has already been a topic discussing the same thing, then its redundant.

Yes, but I was also talking about threads such as "coffee" and "tea" which haven't been posted before, which you seem to object to, you silly underling.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
And we do tell excessive spammers messages to not post as much. But in several cases, they ignore them.....

And the spammers will ignore them when there is no GM forum also.

I'll also say it again - I was being sarcastic about closing down the movie forum. But a lot of the "newbies" you guys seem to have problems with come to this site because of the movies. Closing down GM will only cause Spam in other forums and end up pissing you off more. Not that the movie site already doesn't suffer from an overwelling amount of spam.

[StrawberryIcecream]

so discriminatory. you know if refugees came into america you'd get done for racism if you went aroung calling them newbies.