Gah politics! Middle East discussion

[Radagast The Brown]

he doesn't gat what he wants.

[markedel]

Neither does Sharon unfourtunetly. Pehaps there will be new elections and then who is there? Netanyahu. Great.

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I just wanted to say that a few days ago was a big explosion in a cafe in Tel Aviv. there are bombings almost everyday.

[markedel]

Elbereth where do you live? Two of my distant cousins are looking for condos in Toronto and my aunt is probably trapped with three kids in her house. What is it like for you? Especially since it still a holiday, terror or no.

[Radagast The Brown]

In my house we are acting as reguler. just my dad join to the army while we were in a family treep .
and of course we don't going to the mall in Friday-Saterday.
and I live near Tel Aviv.

[markedel]

That does suck. I do hope this thread remains upon...they seem to be purging general discussions.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Twilight
I personally am very much in support of Israel. The way things are going, I don't think the situation can last very long as it is. Something is going to happen. I don't think peace is going to happen in the area any time soon. Both sides ask for things that the other can't give

Still do that now, given that they have now declared war on Palestine, for having suicide bombers IN THEIR OWN LAND???

[markedel]

There is no state of palestine. Israel is fighting terrorists. The fact that the palestinians believe that Israel can be defeated through terror makes them...perceptive. I think the US will have to intervene, impose a reasonable settlement seperate the two sides "help" the PA dismantle their terror operations and then overthrow saddam and hope that it spurs change in the arba world and from that true peace.

[crickhollow]

this may have already been stated, but isn't israel one of the (if not the) only country to have purchased most (if not all) of its land?
I can't take modern middle eastern history until next year, and until then, it's catch as catch can inbetween other school work. Can one of you knowledgeable people fill me in?

PS I just want all of you living in these hotspot areas that I'm praying for your safety.

Afro, are you an american? and whether yes or no, what happens to you if the US attacks Iraq? (Saudi Arabia has issued a warning saying that they won't side w/ the US this time) Do you teach english through an embassy, or through a private organization?

[markedel]

I can give you the Jewish view

In the late 19th century a group of Jews decided it be a good idea if the Jews got a homeland, guaranteed by the great powers to stop anti-semetism. At the same time due to societal changes a cultural jewish movement focused on Israel sprang up. SO in unrealted events russian Jews went to Israel in the 1880s and western european jews set up the world zionist congress in 1897. Having rejected Uganda as temporary dwelling the zionists hit the jackpot with the balfour decleration (1917) that gave them what is now Jordan and all of Israel as a "jewish homeland." Due to arab attacks against Jews jordan was detached. Between 1917-1948 Britain ran the paces preparing it for the Jews. The jews bought land from the arbas, drained swamps, set up institutions etc. In 1929 and 1936 the arabs rioted more killing jews in hebron and other cities as they were old communities (pre-zionist) and were defencelss, unlike the guarded settlements. During the late 1930s as illegal arab immigration poured the jews were barred from entering thanks to arab riots. Some sneaked in during the holocaust anyways. Thanks to loads of negative PR after the holocaust as jews weren't allowed in the UN voted to partition the place. The jews accepted it, the arabs rejected it and invaded Israel after they declared thei state given to them by the UN indepenent. Lots of arabs fled (either by choice to flee war, because they believed the arabs would win, or because sometimes the IDF got rough). In the end the Jews won had a state accepted all the Jew (800 000) kicked out of arab countries and a many more immigrants. The palestinians were not absorbed by the arab countries nor given citizenship. Israel kept on being attacked by terrorists and provoked by the arabs and fought in 1956, and after Egypt blockaded her and massed armies on her border in 1967. Then Israel captured the west bank and gaza and teh golan. In 1967 she offered to return them, with the exception of east jerusalem, for peace (the Saudi peace plan, with minor territorial modifications). After being attacked in 1973 Egypt gave up trying t o win by violence and got back the Sinai (captured in 1967) in return for peace. In 1982 in response to terror Israel atacked lebanon, but that didn't work out-it destroy the PLO. In 1993 Israel made an agreement with the palestinians-renounce violence and agree that we exist and we'll negotiatie over the structure and area of a palestinian state on the west bank and gaza. The palestinians broke the agreement and now we have this...

[elf_princess]

I would just like to say that this is one of the most interesting threads I've ever read and I've really enjoyed hearing everyone's views. I myself side with Israel... it is just like the terrorist attack we received on 9-11 only a continuous one. The USA was pretty upset so I can see why the people of Israel would be also. I also think this problem will not be solved for quite some time. It started thousands of years ago with Isaac and Ishmael and I don't see the problem being solved any time soon. But these are just the thoughts of a worthless freshmen in high school so pay no heed...

[crickhollow]

Thanks, markedel. Middle east politics get me really confused. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Radagast The Brown]

I really don't think the war will be end in the next 10 years, and if it will another country as Iraq or Iran will try to destroy us. My opinion is that half of the settlements have to get out, but I think that we can't let the Palestiniens come back to Israel and we can't give the Palastiniens Jerusalem.

[Earniel]

First I want you to understand I live far from the scene and I may not know everything. So correct me if I'm wrong. I base my opinions on what I know and I do not want to offend any one.

Originally posted by elf_princess
It started thousands of years ago with Isaac and Ishmael and I don't see the problem being solved any time soon.

Somehow I doubt it started that early. In my opinion it started after Israël was declared a state and when they started to ocupy other territories. I find it hard to choose sides in a conflict with both parties acting irresponsible and not wanting to settle this because that would mean giving something in to the other side.

Israël goes too far by constantly invading Palestinian 'territory'. The entire palestinian economy has been blasted to pieces and they are restricte to their territory on what seems to me a regular basis. Sharon destroys all the means Arafat has to stop the terrorism and the accusses him of allowing the terrorism by not doing anything to stop them. Not very logical to me. He also declared war upon te Palestinians and said as much as that they are a danger to the free world.

On the other hand, the palestinians don't go without blame either! Continuous suicidebombing is no sollution. They know it but they won't stop. They just don't want to even if it might mean peace. They bring to the Israeli population a perpetual atmosphere of fear and death. Not a second can the israelis or their family be safe. No one should suffer that. Arafat seems to do indeed nothing at the suicidebombing, maybe because he hasn't got the means maybe because he doesn't want to, I don't know.

It just makes me sad and angry that they can't see, that they won't see that this will lead to both their destruction.

Elbereth, Radagast and others who live in that area, I truly feel sorry for you and I hope you might know peace some day.

[markedel]

Sharon is an idiot no doubt but palestinians lauched terror attacks before 1967 and before 1948. When they speak of occupied territory they mean the entire state.

[noldo]

Markedel, are you sure the land was actually bought by the Jews? I have some sources claiming otherwise... A difficult situation there...

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I don't know what was wrotten sience the last time I wrote(it ws
a too match to read)
to your questiom Markedel I live close to Tel Aviv but it takes very long time to get there (the trafic is very bad).

Noldo, parts of the land bought by reach Jews. we where in those places in school trips and study on it.

[markedel]

Large chunks of Israel "proper" was bought by Jews.

[afro-elf]

Afro, are you an american? and whether yes or no, what happens to you if the US attacks Iraq? (Saudi Arabia has issued a warning saying that they won't side w/ the US this time) Do you teach english through an embassy, or through a private organization?

yeah I'm from the USA


if the US goes in to iraq I'll probably leave. I'm gonna break my contract here in Nov. anyway I'm feed up with this place

I actually work the the saudi ministry of education which is just a farce

[markedel]

Do the sauids provide educational "assistance" to the PA? I'm just curious because of all the blood libel stuff I've heard about. It seems up the PA's alley.