The death sentence.

Look it up

The prison system is a terrible mess, I'll agree with you there, but not in the way you say it is. And just because we're bad at running a prison doesn't mean we should kill the prisoners, we should fix the prisons! I hate how our government tries to fix one problem by creating another.

God didn't write the laws, people wrote the laws. (BTW, this is really a debate about the US system, sorry but that's the majority here and reading this thread that's just how it runs.)

God wrote the Levitical laws.

www.testytoads.com/TWW/ttsd.html

That's a transcript of what is possibly the greatest West Wing episode to date (asside from the season finale, of course), Take This Sabbath Day. If you have an about a half hour free you should read it.

Another WW fan!

Not so strangely, I did speak to anduin about that episode on icq recently...

(Btw Tater, I don't remember, but how did they kill off Moira Kelly's character?)

(and yep, a great season 2 finale... i won't ever see Ms Landingham(sp?) the same way in the reruns...)

I started watching halfway through the first season, so early stuff I'm not too sure on. Waiting to get the full show on video, and eagerly awaiting september when Aaron Sorkin will publish the screenplays for seasons 1 and 2.

Levitical comes from Levites. They wrote the law. God just dictated them.

Someone takes a life they forfeit theirs. Do unto others; well they did and that invalidates their right to live.

Of course we could sentence them all to live on YOUR block.

But the thing is WE DON'T! That law doesn't apply, as I've said before

(Have you ever read Isaiah?How in the world did he know that a saviour was coming?I mean if God did'nt write the Bible then how did Isaiah know that the Messiah was coming?Or how is it that these men were thousands of years apart from each other and yet they agree that there is a God,that we are sinners and that we need a Messiah?God spoke THROUGH men to write the Bible,so you cant say that God did'nt write the Bible because he did.)
Darth Tater the laws of men dont count because without the law we would have NO IDEA what was right(and dont say that the laws of this country were made by men's ideas cause they were'nt the foundation of our country is the Bible they got the law from the Bible-or they used to-)we need someone to make the laws for us and saying that the Death Sentence is not just then that's saying that God is'nt just and so that would make him imperfect.
Yes the jails are mixed up but do you know why?Because they are IMBIBLICAL.Did you know that there was less crime in Israel because there was NO JAIL SYSTEM?
Think about it
I remain
Samwise of the shire
ps.what do you mean by law does'nt apply?And what are your reasons for saying the Death Sentence is'nt right?

Have you ever even looked at our laws? And Israel had a somewhat low crime rate because people actually believed in God. Try to read my past posts, cause you obviously don't understand what I've said

Have you ever seen the constitution?And wether you believe in God or no the law still is there and it still is valid so just because people dont believe in God does'nt mean that crime has to fly through the roof. Darth Tater all I've gotten is"Why do we have the right?"that does'nt explain very well why you think it's unjust or else it's my Numbskulledness kicking in again.
Samwise of the shire

Apparently you haven't read the whole thread

That'd take for hours,but I might when I dont have anything else to do.
SOTSHIRE

[katya]

let me start off by saying that i am totally against the death penalty. let me list reasons/support/etc. as they come to me:
a lot of the time it's about revenge more than anything and that is just wrong. what good is that going to do anyone? and as for justice, forget it. true justice on earth now is impossible. utterly impossible. think about it. anyway isn't justice just diguised revenge? as for paying for the criminals' housing and what not, it actually does cost a lot of money to execute someone. i am not sure whether they included court fees, and i would imagine because hey, it doesn't cost much at all to shoot someone. and it might be just me, but have you looked much at the way the government spends money nowadays? there are so many more pointless things that taxes are paying for right now already it's unbelievable. before you start killing everyone maybe try reforming some drug laws. i quote a song: "minor drug offenders fill your prisons you dont even flinch, all our taxes paying for your wars against the new non-rich" personally i don't mind paying. and this is just me but i believe in loving your neighbor (masss murderer or saint) and forgiveness. i believe we might as well treat the prisoners well. who cares if they are being "rewarded for killing"? they are still people. that leaves us with one good reason for killing people. to prevent more killings. this is impossible anyway, as much as i hate to say it. i really think it is. maybe we should stop spending money on stupid-ass stuff and improve security. granted, people would perhaps still get out, but so what? there are just as many killers already out there. frodo believed me on this one. remember when he told "sharkey" to just go away? of course since wormtongue killed him anyway we can't really know if he wouldve continued to cause trouble. and as has been mentioned, the gandalf quote. ok now i feel unfit to argue about the bible stuff because i dont read much of the old testament. i consider the bible in general a starting point and maybe a sort of guide. so i dont read it that much. however there are a lot of things about not killing. what did Jesus say? you know it. love your enemy, love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek...bla bla. if you don't believe Him, who will you believe? by the way, isnt there also something about killing anyone who tries to have sex with an animal? please correct me if i misunderstood... and tell me, is that just?
and what's more, as has been said, look at our lovely court system. (by the way, this might be going a little radical, but what about 'judge not lest ye be judged'?") does anyone know about mumia? (mumia abu-jamal that is) yeah...sure...he's guilty...right... and i am princess diana back from the dead.
wow. that was really long. wanna know something scary? i could still say more in my defense. by the way dont mind me if i sound pissed off right now; this is just something i feel strongly about. i am actually feeling rather light-hearted. thanks for listening.

[Erawyn]

Katya I agree with almost everything you said. I heard or read recently that the lethal injection costs a huge amount of money. I don't think that prisoners are living that well, and in my opinion its a bigger punishment to live out your days in prison than to be killed right away. THey don't actually shoot people anymore (in the US) do they?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Erawyn
THey don't actually shoot people anymore (in the US) do they?

No, we don't actually shoot people. We use lethal injection, electric chair or pipe n'sync songs non-stop, 24/7 into their cells until they commit suicide.

I'm for the death penalty period - especially for people like Jeffrey Dahmer.

Katya - what you describe is as if you're not for any justice system at all. Just let them go free. Let's open all the cell blocks and let everyone just go happily about killing and raping people. Well I guess that you'd be fine with having your family brutaly murdered then and the person go free. But hell, under your scenario - there would be no court system to even try the person.

Let's all just live in our fairytale happy little world where we can just forgive and turn the other cheek and maybe no one will commit crimes or kill people.

[Sween]

i personally dont have a problem with the death sentance. Correct me if i am wrong but isnt it only involved in first degree murders? And if there is proof beyond a doubt (and i mean beyond a doubt) i have no problem.

Anyone who purposly takes someones life in many ways signs away there right to live. And what use are they to socity? should we ever release a killer? No we should not.

The death penality saves a lot of money. I have to say though i dont like the electric chair. i think that is a brutal way to kill someone. And i know they are brutal themselves and it might be a detrant but i think its sad that the civilised amonst us allow it.

[katya]

that isnt what i meant at all. for heaven's sake no dont let them to free ever ever, if they are dangerous. but what i mean to say is in jail don't treat them badly. i have my doubts about human nature and things but i think something could be worked out. it isn't that i am not for a justice system. i think we need one. we cannot have mass murderers running around without any consequences. duh. i know i didnt think over how i was going to say anything i said, only what i said. i think i ended up sounding rather like an anarchist (and i have studied anarchism but i don't believe in it. they do have some good ideas though.). or maybe sometimes like a socialist (which is similar), if you were to agrue some things in a wrong direction. i believe, as i said, about forgiveness, but the safety of others is also important. we can't just let people go, like frodo was going to. another thing that i thought someone might disagree about:not treating prisoners badly might make people think, hey, i can go kill someone and then if i get caught, so what? but i don't think most people believe they will be caught in the first place. there are some exceptions; mcveigh, for example. but anyway about the shooting thing, i know that isn't happening, but it would not cost a lot if it were.

[katya]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Let's all just live in our fairytale happy little world where we can just forgive and turn the other cheek and maybe no one will commit crimes or kill people.

this is what i was saying about socialism a minute ago. jerseydevil seems to think that i believe that if there is a change in environment that people will not need to commit crimes. that is the whole idea of anarchism. but i don't believe for a minute that "environment" caused a 40 year old man to rape a teenage girl. not for a minute. i think it is easy to blame things on environment but that's not always the problem.

[Rána Eressëa]

I think the death sentence is uncalled for. Plain and simply uncalled for. The government shouldn't have the right to kill people if we don't have that right as well. I think people need to individually deal with others that they have a problem with.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
I think the death sentence is uncalled for. Plain and simply uncalled for. The government shouldn't have the right to kill people if we don't have that right as well. I think people need to individually deal with others that they have a problem with.

What do you mean by "people need to individually deal with others that they have a problem with"? Do you mean that I take what ever action I want against someone that I feel did something wrong to me? Do you think there should be no courts? No laws? No jury?