What's the point....

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

I would be very upset to see you leave, and I don't think it's all that serious. As I have said throughout this thread, its about altering the original topic and straying to a point of no return with religion. That's all.

I agree and I would also not like rian to leave.

[Elemmírë]

Talk about repetitive threads...

I'm with IR and RÃ*an here. I personally have no problem with all of the religious posts... If it gets tedious, I just skip over it. I don't think it's that big of a deal, and I don't see how it's possible for a really religious person to keep religion out of the conversation when the topic is somewhat problematic...

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I think I'm guilty of keeping discussions going, even if it's "same old same old" but with NEW people, if that's something to be ashamed of. I don't think it is. Personally, I'm very interested in moral topics, and what drives people's moral decisions, so I tend to be on those threads. But I want to cooperate with Entmoot admins and mods, and if they see it as a problem, then I'd like to change if I can, or leave if I must.

Don't leave, RÃ*an! I don't see any problem with your posts, even those dealing with morals or religious issues I don't agree with. If it's a way to back up your ideas, and a logical way...

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Talk about repetitive threads...

I'm with IR and RÃ*an here. I personally have no problem with all of the religious posts... If it gets tedious, I just skip over it. I don't think it's that big of a deal, and I don't see how it's possible for a really religious person to keep religion out of the conversation when the topic is somewhat problematic...

Well again - it's not about religious posts - it's about threads becoming Religious centric when there is far more to discuss in those threads. This thread wouldn't be so repetitive if people actually comprehended what people's complaints are.

Don't leave, RÃ*an! I don't see any problem with your posts, even those dealing with morals or religious issues I don't agree with. If it's a way to back up your ideas, and a logical way...

Again - it's not an issue of religious posts or discussing religion or bring up religious aspects in a post - it's about threads becoming religious centric or where everything is about religion. Rian isn't the only person and it's not even just the fault of religious people.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

That would be fine

And I've been considering asking IRex to start a thread and present a multi-post opinion on "evidence for evolution". I think that would be interesting! What do you say, IRex?

Well I think having two evolution threads on a message board where you are only supposed to have one thread per topic doest make much sense. Because once you start down that road the inevitable conclusion is fracturing subjects into splinters so fine that it gets ridiculous. I envision threads like "Evolution in primates ONLY!" or "Evolution: academic discussion - Biologists ONLY!" or more frighteningly do we need to begin dividing subjects up based on various different religions? So we have a secular version ONLY and a christian version ONLY and an islamic version ONLY etc. etc. No thanks...

All the more reason why I think we need to just scrap all together the whole concept of restricting the number of threads that can be posted about a specific subject matter rather then trying to fine the right working number. What was the original rational behind that anyway? If you were allowed to open a thread on anything you like you wouldnt have people digging up old threads thinking they have no choice but to say what they want to say in that one. then EACH concept EACH idea would be self sustaining and would have to live or die on its own merit. and the new idea wouldnt have to compete with 200+ pages of say religious tinged arguments...

When you have this kind of system threads tend to stay alive for a bit then fade away unlike here where we try really hard to cover general topics and then kill ourselves to dig those general topics back up when we want to make another comment that more or less conforms to the original subject. thats why you see so often comments like "Well I didnt know where else to put this so I guess Ill put it here..." So rethink how threads work I say. It will make problems like this (the subject of this thread) go away and it will make the discussion level healthier and more vibrant.

As for a separate thread on "evidence for evolution" I think a lot of that has been poured into the creationism thread and frankly I dont have a problem with that. Im not really concerned with technical accuracy of the name of the thread. obviously "evidence for creationsim" is going to go hand in hand with a lot of comparing and contrasting to the evidence for evolution. Perhaps if you like we can make a EVOLUTION thread and just talk about scientific aspects of evolution. But Im thinking only a few of us would find that of any interest. I know Id be into it but most people dont care to discuss evolutionary theory on a biological level. sometimes the conversation spontaneously gets going that way for a few pages and thats really cool when it does. genetics is a fascinating topic... well to me.

Note: You know up to this point I just kind of took for granted that what everyone was saying about the Gay/Lesbian thread being dominated by religious discussions was true but i just had a look in there and frankly i didnt really see massive direct reference to religion in the last half dozen pages at least. Just a bunch of articles posted by inked and everybody getting outraged by em and hacking em apart. But no one was really spouting off about "god and gays" per se. Not directly. So... just FYI...

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Well I think having two evolution threads on a message board where you are only supposed to have one thread per topic doest make much sense. Because once you start down that road the inevitable conclusion is fracturing subjects into splinters so fine that it gets ridiculous. I envision threads like "Evolution in primates ONLY!" or "Evolution: academic discussion - Biologists ONLY!" or more frighteningly do we need to begin dividing subjects up based on various different religions? So we have a secular version ONLY and a christian version ONLY and an islamic version ONLY etc. etc. No thanks...

All the more reason why I think we need to just scrap all together the whole concept of restricting the number of threads that can be posted about a specific subject matter rather then trying to fine the right working number. What was the original rational behind that anyway? If you were allowed to open a thread on anything you like you wouldnt have people digging up old threads thinking they have no choice but to say what they want to say in that one. then EACH concept EACH idea would be self sustaining and would have to live or die on its own merit. and the new idea wouldnt have to compete with 200+ pages of say religious tinged arguments...

I don't get this - one paragraph your saying NOT to have multiple threads about different aspects of a subject and then in the next paragraph you say that we should.

When you have this kind of system threads tend to stay alive for a bit then fade away unlike here where we try really hard to cover general topics and then kill ourselves to dig those general topics back up when we want to make another comment that more or less conforms to the original subject. thats why you see so often comments like "Well I didnt know where else to put this so I guess Ill put it here..." So rethink how threads work I say. It will make problems like this (the subject of this thread) go away and it will make the discussion level healthier and more vibrant.

Actually - I don't usually try to kill myself looking for a thread. For one thing - if I want to post in the evolution thread or the gay lesbian thread - I know exactly where ot put it - regardless of what I want to say. So I don't think that's an issue. As for not knowing where to put something - for me that usually only happens when I just want to make a comment - but I know that it can't sustain a thread all by itself. It's just some observation thing. I think it happened once to me in one of the political threads.

As for a separate thread on "evidence for evolution" I think a lot of that has been poured into the creationism thread and frankly I dont have a problem with that. Im not really concerned with technical accuracy of the name of the thread. obviously "evidence for creationsim" is going to go hand in hand with a lot of comparing and contrasting to the evidence for evolution. Perhaps if you like we can make a EVOLUTION thread and just talk about scientific aspects of evolution. But Im thinking only a few of us would find that of any interest. I know Id be into it but most people dont care to discuss evolutionary theory on a biological level. sometimes the conversation spontaneously gets going that way for a few pages and thats really cool when it does. genetics is a fascinating topic... well to me.

There was the evolution thread before the creation thread. Both threads are basically the same now. That's why it's so easy to get confused as to which one was brought to the front. Theyr'e both now evolution vs creationism and they have the same basic arguments in them.

Note: You know up to this point I just kind of took for granted that what everyone was saying about the Gay/Lesbian thread being dominated by religious discussions was true but i just had a look in there and frankly i didnt really see massive direct reference to religion in the last half dozen pages at least. Just a bunch of articles posted by inked and everybody getting outraged by em and hacking em apart. But no one was really spouting off about "god and gays" per se. Not directly. So... just FYI...

And the articles support what and use what to support their arguments? Does it have to be direct for it to be religious centric? Whether it's religious articles or one is making the statements oneself - I don't really see the difference in it. Teh context is there and that is what people are responding to.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I don't get this - one paragraph your saying NOT to have multiple threads about different aspects of a subject and then in the next paragraph you say that we should.

but you are talking about limited multiple threads. Not unlimited ones. what Im saying is NOT to have any limits on thread subject at all. Just scrap the whole concept. Because if you limit it to JUST one then you have the problem we are discussing here which is (essentially): “certain themes/people dominate the thread and Im interested in discussing the topic on MY terms not THEIRS all the time�. But you also wont have to try to navigate the sort of potentially never ending fracturing of related topics into more and more specific thread titles (4 threads on evolution broken down by specific sub topic for example). In that scenario the moderators will always be worrying well isn’t this one basically like that one? And there will be no perfect way to measure this if you start expanding to “more then one but still limited�.

Actually - I don't usually try to kill myself looking for a thread. For one thing - if I want to post in the evolution thread or the gay lesbian thread - I know exactly where ot put it - regardless of what I want to say.

well but I think that was my original response to you when you were saying it does no good to post in those threads because it’s the “same old discussion going round and round.� Just post anyway. So I was trying to come up with a solution to your reply that these threads have all been hijacked by religious people.

And anyway I don’t think it’s the gay or evolution threads that are the issue when it comes to finding threads. Those are easy. It’s the vast majority of the more obscure ones that aren’t that easily found by just looking through the first few pages of general topics or even by using our limited search engine. Invariably when im trying to find a thread I posted in a long time ago that very timely I end up having to wade through my thousands of posts by using the “most recent posts by this user� feature rather then finding anything useful through the search engine.

As for not knowing where to put something - for me that usually only happens when I just want to make a comment - but I know that it can't sustain a thread all by itself.

But see I don’t have a problem with making a thread that wont last long or just has half a dozen posts. That’s ok. As long as its not SPAM (and that’s a separate discussion) or advertising then why not post say an article or something you think other people would like to see without having to try to figure out where it should be filed exactly. So what if it cant sustain a meaty thread. Does every thread need to be long lived?

And the articles support what and use what to support their arguments? Does it have to be direct for it to be religious centric? Whether it's religious articles or one is making the statements oneself - I don't really see the difference in it. Teh context is there and that is what people are responding to.

so essentially you are saying we need to censor religious content out of threads unless its specifically stated in the title that it has to do with religion. That’s dangerous if you ask me. And anyway in a thread like that you just cant tease out all the religious aspects of ones opinion regarding homosexuality from the “secular� aspects of it. I don’t think its possible. I mean if it was the math homework thread or something like that then it’s a whole lot easier to keep it dry and non religious. But homosexuality? Evolution? It cant be helped. And if you tried to censor it in that way I think youd be left with a dull boring wasteland of a thread. Where people feel like they cant actually speak from their heart on a subject even if they are dead wrong.

[BeardofPants]

Well, I like Janet's idea of padlocking threads that have gotten too big and unwieldy. Perhaps, if a fresh start were to be undertaken, there would be less frustration from some of us who've been following some of these debates for a while?

And while I do happen to think that there are certain aspects of religion which seem to be permeating the 'moot at the moment, I don't think it's very fair to expect 'mooters of the religious persuasion to not bring their world view to the discussions. Again, I must reiterate that my only real cause for concern is that there seems to be a great degree of redundancy and repetitiousness in some threads.

And I definitely don't want Sharon leaving - she makes insightful, amazing posts, and though I might not agree with them, I can respect that she broaches often sensitive subjects thoughtfully, and with great care.

[Andúril]

Cr3473 4 r3l1g10us sub-f0ru/\/\ 1n 73|-| G3n3r41 f0ru/\/\. Jus7 /\/\y 2c.

[HOBBIT]

Originally Posted by Andúril

Cr3473 4 r3l1g10us sub-f0ru/\/\ 1n 73|-| G3n3r41 f0ru/\/\. Jus7 /\/\y 2c.

god no :P


for those who can't read that, here is the english translation:

Create a religious sub-forum in the general forum. Just my two cents.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

No, I have not seen you posting there - have you noticed me posting in the political threads? I find them boring, so I don't post in them. But I don't complain about them, either, even tho I find them terribly repetitive and "same old stuff" by same old people.

You have a good point here, more often than not political threads get into the equally old and boring America-Europe bashing debate. Which IMO keeps people from posting there as much as religion centered discussions could people from posting in the GLB or the evolution/creation-threads.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

You have a good point here, more often than not political threads get into the equally old and boring America-Europe bashing debate. Which IMO keeps people from posting there as much as religion centered discussions could people from posting in the GLB or the evolution/creation-threads.

I agree - I find the many anti-american and american-bashing comments to get rather old.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I agree - I find the many anti-american and american-bashing comments to get rather old.

As well as all the Europe-bashing that usually follows right after that.

[Andúril]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

god no :P

DON'T USE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN!

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I agree - I find the many anti-american and american-bashing comments to get rather old.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

As well as all the Europe-bashing that usually follows right after that.

Maybe we all just need to go to the Teacup Café, have a cup of tea and a cheese scone, and talk about anything except religion, politics, and the Lord of the Rings movies.

That's why I started the place you know.

See you there!

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

As well as all the Europe-bashing that usually follows right after that.

Well maybe if some people would stop all the american bashing and anti-americanism - then you wouldn't have the bitching about europe. It's not so much europe-bashing anyway - as it is if people want to throw stones - I'll throw them right back. What do you expect to happen? Have me just sti back while people are able to freely rip into and say anything the hell they want about america, americans and our government?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Let me also point out that the political affairs of the US and the world are an ever changing thing so there is always something new to say. The problem we are discussing in this thread is repetition.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

The problem we are discussing in this thread is repetition.

Actually, so was I.

But forget I said it, my point is proven already.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Actually, so was I.

But forget I said it, my point is proven already.

I'm glad it was. Bu just remember YOU are the one that brought it up and you agreed that the European bashing is in repsonse to the constant American bashing. So thank you for realizing that.

[Nibs]

Religious debates? Political skirmishes? Never seen 'em. I just come here to look at the avatars .

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Nibs

Religious debates? Political skirmishes? Never seen 'em. I just come here to look at the avatars .

Good to see you again Nibs.

That's a good idea, playing it safe.