01-21-2005, 11:02 AM | #81 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Do you really think that the colonialism and empire-building natures of GB, France, and Germany, not to forget the Belgians and the Dutch et alia, has so died from the draining effects of 2 world wars and their consequences? I suspect the motive is well at work even if limited to a "continental" scale. The moves of Germany and France as discussed above would seem to imply a revivication (if not a full scaled resurrection) of the concepts. But, despite the history, current bloc building is certainly evidence prima facie of the goals, is it not?
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-21-2005, 11:28 AM | #82 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
As for member states coming together as equals - it can be done - the US has succeeded with this for over 225 years. What the EU is doing - we did during the Constitutional Convention - for the same exact reasons even. We came together to promote trade from within and outside of the group (it was felt a STRONG single voice was much louder on the international stage, than 13 small voices yelling over each other) and for nati0nal defense. It was much easier to deal with Britain illegally ignoring the Paris treaty, or spain blocking the Mississippi when all 13 states worked together under ONE umbrella (Known as the United States), than it was for only the particular states to fight for those issues. It also prevented the wars that were already starting to brew between the various states. NY illegally laying claims to parts of Pennsylvania or bottling up the Connecticut and NJ ports as just two examples. But the problem with the EU is that they are having the same problem out founding fathers had. Big states versus the little states and how to keep both happy. The thing is though that France and Germany want to CONTROL the EU at the detriment of the smaller states. This was evidenced when certain (at the time future) EU members sided with the US on the war and Chirac told them - they should shut up if they knew what was good for them. His implication was that if they sided with the US - their membership was in jeopardy.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 11:47 AM. Reason: spelling |
|
01-21-2005, 11:34 AM | #83 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
01-21-2005, 11:53 AM | #84 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Come post in the new thread! ^.^ I'll start it after this post and call it "Canada-USA Relations". Quote:
A lot of countries can make a similar claim. We've had at least 7 provinces and territories working together since 1871... France has provinces, England has counties, Sweden has regions, etc. etc. But the problem with the EU is that they are having the same problem out founding fathers had. Big states versus the little states and how to keep both happy. The thing is though that France and Germany want to CONTROL the EU at the detriment of the smaller states. This was evidenced when certain (at the time) future EU members sided with the US on the war and Chirac told them - they should shut up if they knew what was good for them. His implication was that if they sided with the US - their membership was in jeopardy.[/QUOTE]
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
01-21-2005, 12:30 PM | #85 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
|
01-21-2005, 12:46 PM | #86 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
A good book to read would be Decision in Philadelphia. As I have stated - the problem with people outside the US is they view us a one country - when we do not have a NATIONAL government - we have a federal government. During the Civil War the south felt it was perfectly in their right to leave the Union. However - to preserve the Union - the north fought them on this. You will note we are still referred to as a Union. France's provinces, or englans counties or Sweden's regions - in no way compare to the US states. That jsut shows your complete lack of understanding of the US if you are trying to make that comparison. Our national government hardly controls anything in the states. We do not even have a "national" drinking age. It is a state drinking age of 21 that congress basically forced on the states by threatening to oull federal highway funding - because the federal government does not have jurisdiction of drinking age. States also initiate trade between other countries in our own behalf - aside from the federal government. It was just on NJN News yesterday about a new business partinership between NJ and Israel (I can't find an article - but you can watch the news program at NJN News - Note that this link will only work for a short time. BTW - I was at the Atlantic City Tourism Council meeting that is included in the news program; Both are at minute 16 in the news program, but you can gain a lot of understanding if you watch the whole thing - since this news concentrates on State news, whereas what most people see is our national news programs) . They also went onto say that NJ's largest trading partners are Canada, UK, Germany and 4th is Israel (starts on minute 20). Our governors go to various countries to promote trade with our state. If peopel actually watch the news program which is about a half hour - maybe they will have a small understanding of the way the EU and the US are very similar. As a matter of fact - some states didn't like the US position on the Kyoto treaty - so they went and attended the UN conference back in December and they plan on working out an agreement on the Kyoto treary outside of the federal government (there was a cnn article on it - but now I can't find it - there is this though - Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative. These are things people outside don't understand about the US. They only view us as the United States - not the Union of INDIVIDUAL states (countries) that we are. As another example - we do not have a national school system - we have state school systems. The federal government basically plays NO ROLE ion our school systems. That is why it is so frustrating to me when people compare the US school system to other countries - since that is erroneous. The states should individually be compared - just like they are with the member countries in the EU. The school system of NJ is nothing like the school system of Indiana or California.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 12:50 PM. |
||
01-21-2005, 12:49 PM | #87 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
I like how europeans view the Eu as a "club" while lumping all the of the US under one umbrella - instead of looking at as as what we are - which is a UNION of SOVERIEGN states.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 12:52 PM. |
|
01-21-2005, 01:39 PM | #88 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
Quote:
If you'd rather argue about opinions I've expressed elsewhere, you should to to those threads and take up the cudgels. |
||
01-21-2005, 01:50 PM | #89 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 01:51 PM. |
|||
01-21-2005, 02:01 PM | #90 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Yawn!
|
01-21-2005, 02:24 PM | #91 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
But oh well - maybe one day you will actually understand American history and the founding of this country - but I doubt it - because it isn't really that much of an interest to you. I at least try to see what the other point of view is - whether I agree with it or not. And I have studied a lot of European History - as well as American history. I continue to look at what is going on with the EU to better my understanding of it. But with my expience of American History and European History and the development of the EU - I really do not see any difference between what we did and what the EU is doing. I think it's more of an ego thing for europeans to think they are doing something new. As well as a lack of understanding of the US and the relationship with the states.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 02:27 PM. |
|
01-21-2005, 04:52 PM | #92 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
For thise who are interested - this is a forum discussion on the book "United State of Europe" by the CATO Institute. I had seen most of this on C-Span when it was shown. But I had missed the beginning.
http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=1766 You can watch it or listen to it. It is a discussion on both sides of the issue. In addition to reading and watching things like this - I also see many things on French news.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
01-21-2005, 07:46 PM | #93 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
Quote:
It is no big secret that any country that commits itself with the EU is under request to consult with the rest of the Union regarding mutually important international affairs that can affect all, to coordinate efforts, (if they agree or not with a common position is another matter, and we all know they often do not). It should be supposedly general practice within the EU. Yet, it is still quite ineffective. As far as EU lore goes, every accessing country, and not just these last ten, have agreed with implementing this behaviour since the moment of the signature of their Accessing Treaty, as a sign of good faith. In practice, this is just an anticipation of what is seen as part of the EU membership rights and duties, something that candidates are often eager to do anyway, to show they are part of the group and have a saying in the general opinion. The ten candidates did confer with those EU countries signing the Letter of the Eight, but not with the EU per se, and particularly not with those countries that opposed the US; hence the criticism of the French President, a justified one at that. Oh, and I didn’t heard this in the French news, I’ve heard if from a Portuguese diplomat, one that actually supports the war, btw. Quote:
With all frankness, it is debatable if the EU states are full sovereign states, considering what they already "lost" of their individual powers, but they are still recognized as such. In the other hand, you are an American, no one else is going to recognise the State of New Jersey as a sovereign state (anymore than the Principality of Sealand is), while you are part of the US; deal with it. As for Europe being a club; why not? What is the problem with the analogy? Bottom line is, we still can leave if we want to, , just like in a club
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
|||
01-21-2005, 08:14 PM | #94 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Youre complete ignorance of US and the relationship with the states has just shown right through and will be glaringly obvious for people who live in the US and understands the role of the Federal government and the power of the states. As i said - our governors go around the world to talk about trade and other things. We just don't have a military. The federal government's main purpose was for national defense. as it says in Amdenment X of our constitution - Quote:
BTW - I personally think that all EU members should lose their olympic teams and UN membership and should only be represented by the EU. For all purposes you are basically under the control of the EU and are no longer free to do whatever you wish to do. The EU has a anthem, has a single currency, has a parliament, has a president and has a supreme court that can override any law in any member state. You are no longer countries - but states. Deal with it.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 09:30 PM. |
||||||
01-21-2005, 08:59 PM | #95 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Ahhh - I found the artilcle concerning several US states going to the UN Kyoto meeting...
Quote:
Don't worry - I know it's difficult for you to understand. Most people in the world think of us as a single nation - not made up of sovereign states in a united union. Of course they are just ignorant of the role and power of state governments.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-21-2005 at 09:19 PM. |
|
01-22-2005, 01:29 AM | #96 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Here is something I found which is written by a swedish group comparing economic statistics (particularly GDP) of the individual US states - with the economic stats of EU states.
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
01-22-2005, 01:14 PM | #97 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Since we are being candid, let me tell you that yours was a rather presumptuous post. As you are often known to say; you don’t know me, you do not know the extent of my knowledge either; what you did is making arrogant assumptions about me, and still completely fail to get to the real crux of the issue.
Oh, I’m sure you would be delighted in correct me about my obvious faulty knowledge of the Legislative, Judiciary and Executive branches of American power, perhaps amend me in my assumption congressmen are elected for the House of Representatives for a term of 2 years while the senators are elected for 6 years, something I’m not really sureif it is so).. Who knows, perhaps show me I should be aware the precise date when, during the early XX Century, Senators began to be elected directly; or then correct me in my assumption that, being a Federation, individual US states enjoy of a great degree of autonomy, having inclusive their own Constitutions. Perhaps, being myself just a “ignorant continental” you would prefer show me how wrong I am in my assumptions of the relevance of the crossing of the Delaware for the moral of the American rebels, or belittle my limited knowledge of the accomplishments of Ethan Allen, (is that even his name?) and his Green Mountain Boys. But the problem is, neither of it have any relevance; for the issue is not my knowledge of the inner workings of the US, (that I never said to be particularly knowledgeable to begin with, despite your self induced assumptions), nor your knowledge of the inner workings of the European Nation-states, (And I wonder, how extant it is indeed?). The issue is what constitutes a Sovereign State; and if you had a little bit more objectivity in your post, you would have noticed that I have questioned if, in the actual conditions, EU states are real Sovereign States, even if they are recognized as such. And that brings the question, after all your implicit claims of intellectual superiority, concerning us, “poor ignorant continentals” and myself in particular, do you know what constitutes a Sovereign State at the light of International Law?
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
01-22-2005, 03:16 PM | #98 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Since you didn't answer the question - I will let you know - we have Transportation Departments, Education Department, We have a legislative and judicial branches of government - along with an executive branh of government we have our Environmental Protection Agencies, our own welfare departments, Department of Military and Veterans Affairs, etc. NJ has it's own Constitution and it's own flag. Everything a sovereign state - has we have. Quote:
Quote:
As for international law - generally it is accepted that a soverign state is one that is not subject to a higher politcal authority, however there is no clear cut definition of what a soveriegn nation is under international law. Taiwan can be considered a soverign nation by the US - while Europe and China will refuse to recognise it. I will grant you that US states do not have the power to do anything we want - but your arrogant statements confirm your lack of understanding of the state power.. My view is that European states are no longer - nor should be considered independent sovereign countries, just like you seem to not think of New Jersey - in your sarcastic tone - as soveriegn. European States are not free to just pick and choose what to agree with when it comes to the EU. The people of European states - can appeal their own states judicial courts - up to the Supreme Court of the EU - just like we can in the US. In addition to all this - the EU has an abassador to the US which - "has enjoyed full ambassadorial status since 1990" and the US has an ambassador to the EU - Ambassador Rockwell Anthony Schnabel. It has been my view for a long time with studying European, EU and the US - that Europeans somehow think that they are doing somethign completely new by building the EU. Sorry - you're 225 years too late to take that title. I think from now on - based on the evidence at hand - that we should no longer call you countries - but European States. Your states have government bodies - the same as US states have and you are just Europeans. You seem unwilling to acknowledge the differences in the states - so really - why should we recognize the differences between your states? Let's face it - you are losing your national identities. Belgium. France, Germany etc - are nothing more than what California, NY or NJ is (you have an army - that's great - so do the 50 US states such as the NJ Army National Guard and the NJ Air National Guard - we also have a naval branch). Quote:
Quote:
I know it hurts to accept this - I'm sure there will be many people who disagree. But you can't just do what you want anymore just like we an't do everything we wish. Just get used to it - or get out of the union while you still can.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||||
01-22-2005, 05:23 PM | #99 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
You did more than just question; you made affirmations and arrogant assumptions; as you keep doing here, it is not even the first time you use these tactic against posters here, instead of debete you try to intimidate. so don’t play the choir boy with me. You play this game far too often for not be know by everyone by now. Quote:
Despite your claims you still fail to be objective, (again), If I was questioning EU members being full fledged Sovereign Nations, how on Earth could I assume the American federal states to be so, huh? Get the picture this time? And you say I was being arrogant for stating you haven’t been objective in your reading of that part of my post? Please. Quote:
A Sovereign Nation is one that enjoys of the totality of Rights and Duties recognized by International Law. The key word being totality. That means, among others, (and to simplify) just regarding the domain of International competence; Ius Legationis (the right of legation, to send and receive diplomatic agents, and to have embassies and consulates) Ius Tractum (the right to celebrate international treaties) The right of making International Protests, (I can’t remember the proper translation here, I haven’t study it in English in the first place; it means you make use internationally of certain means to make due certain rights, this means are recognized in principle by the article 34, number 1 of the International Court of Justice statute) Ius Belli (the use of force; to wage war) And to cut it short, Federal states are semi-sovereign States. So in regard to this, keep the crap about my so call ignorance or arrogance; your attack was both unwarranted, arrogant, biased, and ignorant of my motives. And, at most, you can complain you don’t agree with the strictest view of I post here.
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
|||
01-22-2005, 05:42 PM | #100 | |||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-22-2005 at 10:35 PM. |
|||||||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
State of the Union Address 2004 | jerseydevil | General Messages | 73 | 01-23-2004 02:40 PM |
Your thoughts on animal rights | afro-elf | General Messages | 91 | 12-18-2002 05:44 AM |
Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy | Philia | General Messages | 7 | 11-09-2002 08:08 PM |
Why Books are Better than Drugs | emplynx | General Literature | 160 | 09-20-2002 07:03 PM |