05-10-2004, 09:41 PM | #81 | |
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Ah... look... another post without bashing America... congradulations. (Ok... I'll stop now. ) |
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05-10-2004, 09:54 PM | #82 | ||
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05-10-2004, 09:58 PM | #83 | |||
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05-10-2004, 10:01 PM | #84 | |||
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I just can't imagine it without laughing.. I just can't. |
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05-11-2004, 06:49 AM | #85 | |
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The main issue is that most Brits do NOT want such a "watered down" monarchy. The Crown represents what many people (not me!) regard as the essence of the nation. Even many citizens of Commonwealth countries agree (i.e. countries that used to be part of the Empire), which is why, I guess, the Aussies didn't ditch them the last time round. But there's also a very practical question of what you replace it with. With something as important as Head of State, you don't want a tosser like Bliar, who has too much power as it is, dictating the way it goes. To my mind that is the one thing that is good about the monarchy: it's apolitical. You only need to see what happened in the last Australian referendum on becoming a republic to get an example. Basically, their PM manipulated it so that it was a choice between keeping the monarchy and having soem dodgy political puppet. Not surprisingly, they opted to keep the monarchy. Speaking of which, any Aussies know when the next republican referendum is going to be? |
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05-11-2004, 07:04 AM | #86 | |
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And God forbid we should ever end up with an elected head of state like that awful Tony (oh, I never knew anything about the abuses in Iraq, honest, guv!) Blair. |
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05-11-2004, 10:20 AM | #87 | |
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I never called anyone 'hun' before - makes me feel all American... EDIT: Look what I found: stats Pity it isn't a bit more recent - but 74% in favour! I thought it was nearer 50% at the most... And for some international comparison, I read this story in today's newspaper and I'm in the mood for posting links: another monarchy
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 05-11-2004 at 10:51 AM. |
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05-11-2004, 10:24 AM | #88 | |
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Also, does anyone know if rejecting the monarchy would mean Australia leaving the Commonwealth?
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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05-11-2004, 11:13 AM | #89 | |||
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05-11-2004, 11:31 AM | #90 | |||||
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05-11-2004, 11:35 AM | #91 |
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Um... I was watching The West Wing the other day... all the people in it, besides President Sheen, all the poeple who wield power are unelected. Toby, for example, many key decisions, yes, knows secrets, yup, well paid, yup, elected, well no...
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
05-11-2004, 01:18 PM | #92 |
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THere is a valid point in there, Janny, in that our systems of democracy seem to produce governments which place the interests of certain groups above those their own people.
Another reason why it's good to have a politically independent head of state (though there's no reason why s/he couldn't be elected, like in Ireland). I'm not surprised at those stats. I also reckon that roughly the same number of Brits are quite happy to believe that the Royals are good value for money. Sun-star, is that a Japanese candle in the wind there? The British royals certainly regarded Diana as little more than breeding stock. Last edited by The Gaffer : 05-11-2004 at 01:25 PM. |
05-11-2004, 01:46 PM | #93 | |
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I meant that, while British politics has been muddied by Alistair Campbell, ultimately the entirity of people who hold power have been elected.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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05-11-2004, 01:57 PM | #94 |
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You've lost me. Not a West Wing fan, so don't know who Toby is. And we don't elect our prosecutors, sheriffs or Upper House like they do in the US.
But the issue in democraticness is not just about electing people, it's about consultation and accountability. |
05-11-2004, 02:41 PM | #95 | |
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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05-11-2004, 03:21 PM | #96 | |
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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05-11-2004, 09:08 PM | #97 | |
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Thats because America, like most of the world, is actually a republic, not a democracy. A republic is the system of government in which we elect leaders to speak for us, and they appoint their own aids and so forth. A democracy, or at least the theory of one, is direct representation of the people in government, and the people have a direct role in every decision, which would be impossible in most countries given their size. The people cant elect EVERYBODY, government would grind to a halt. You elect the main ones, and let them sort the rest out. The point is, and this is a big point, only the elected officials have the actual power. Toby on the west wing has influence, but cannot make final decisions without the elected president.
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05-12-2004, 05:20 AM | #98 | |
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That did occur to me the other day, while watching some Parliamentary debate, just having got back from the States: I'd LOVE to see Bush dealing with PM's Questions in the House of Commons. He wouldn't last 5 minutes. |
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05-12-2004, 11:41 AM | #99 |
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Is that praise of Mr. Blair?
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
05-12-2004, 07:34 PM | #100 | |
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