10-23-2002, 02:42 PM | #81 |
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Earinel- Now I never said that. well anyway, why do you believe in evolution?? evolution is a religon for the people in the world that think God is a theory and just something for people to think that they are actually going somewhere after death. well I am sorry but is all evolution is in my opinion.
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10-23-2002, 02:51 PM | #82 | |
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Also, what does evolution have to do with life after death? Absolutely nothing at all! You can easily believe in God and evolution, I am a living example of this (though I don't believe in it exactly the way it is taught). Evolution is not the religion of people who don't believe in God...first off, it's not a religion. And, as has been stated before, evolution in NO WAY attempts to disprove God. Too many Christians take this way out of proportion and give the rest of us a bad name.
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 10-23-2002 at 02:55 PM. |
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10-23-2002, 02:52 PM | #83 | |
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10-23-2002, 02:58 PM | #84 |
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Star Polish- I would love to do a paper in school! I think school is fun!! I just would not want to do it on evolution.
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
10-23-2002, 02:58 PM | #85 | |
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I've always wondered about the whole 'making the world in a week' as well. The thing is, God doesn't experience time as we do. I suppose you could say he is "outside" of time as we know it. In an attempt to put it in terms we could understand, the writer of these books (is it beleived to be Moses? Can't remember) used that terminology. Or, perhaps, he used different words that have been lost in the translation. OR, the word 'day' coudl just refer to an amount of time, not necessarily what we call a day today. Ms. Undomial, my point was the paper was ON evolution.
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 10-23-2002 at 03:00 PM. |
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10-23-2002, 03:07 PM | #86 |
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Starr Polish- yes I know. alright, do you beleve in evolution??? you friend could of done a paper against evolution but she would of failed on it(most likely). why didn't she ask the teacher about it? why didn't she write a paper against evolution? all she wanted was to get out of writeing a paper.
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
10-23-2002, 03:18 PM | #87 | |||||||
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Ms. Undomial:
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Propagated mutations - part of the definition of a species - are observable in many cases all over the world. Certain tropical fish develop bands of colouration for the purpose of camoflauge in a coral reef. Porcupine fish develop venemous spines for self-defense and survival. Some bees have stings, and others don't - depending on whether or not it is a demand of their environment. Polar bears have fluffy coats because they live in cold weather. Darwin's own pet example was, of course, the tortoise population in the Galapagos... Ms. Undomial again: Quote:
Evolution has no church. Teaching evolution in public schools does not violate a separation of church and state. Let me put it this way again: science is not a religion. The difference between scientific theories and religious theories is that the formulation of scientific theories follows Galilean method - "accepted until disproven." Religious theories do not follow Galilean method, but the doctrine that "if the evidence contradicts the gospel, the evidence must be discarded." R*an again: Quote:
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Random kinetic motion in gas particles - or, at the subatomic level, the probabilistic movement of electrons - or, say, the ion flow of the earth's core - all of these are examples of extreme disorder. The very air you breathe is a case of highly random motion - and just wait until you pump up the temperature... then you're talking. You can't even describe the petals on a rose without complex multidimensional fractal algorithms - and the adage that no two are alike is just one example of the impressive degree of randomness exhibited here. That's hardly organized. If you're bringing thermodynamics into this, true organization would be where most everything is a perfect immobile crystal exhibiting no motion at a temperature of zero Kelvin. (See the Third Law of Thermodynamics, which defines the reference point for standard entropy.) Quote:
The theory of evolution deals with speciation - the propagation of current species resulting in the creation of new ones. As evidenced by the thousands of species of birds in the Amazon rainforest, this leads to extreme diversity - and very little uniformity. Evolution may deal with organized complex biological systems, but that is outweighed by the sheer diversity of the systems that exist. I'd hardly say the world around us is organized when everything is so diverse that we are unable to visualize a pure, perfect Platonic idea for anything.
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10-23-2002, 03:19 PM | #88 | |||
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Cirdan:
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The Hebrews who wrote it. BeardofPants: Quote:
Finally, I came up with another insight I should add here: Nobody told you that you have to believe everything you're taught in schools. A lot of people still don't believe in quantum physics and Schrodinger's Cat and all that jazz. And a lot of people (correctly) know that the War of 1812 was a draw, despite what some American textbooks may claim about it being a victory. As such, evolution should be taught at the appropriate level of understanding.
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10-23-2002, 04:01 PM | #89 | |||
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10-23-2002, 04:19 PM | #90 |
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It doesn't say anything against it either, does it, emplynx? It never says how God made anything, simply that he made it by speaking.
Ironparrot, just because things are at random doesn't mean they weren't created. The petals of a rose may be incredibly complex and each one different, but what does that show? God can use apparently random circumstances to bring about a purpose; look at the end result of the rose. Organization isn't necessary to design when the design is made by God. And it isn't just the Hebrews who wrote the Bible that claim it is God's inspired word. Millions of Christians claim that and have always claimed it, and that is based on experience, not upon what the Hebrews said. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 10-23-2002 at 04:22 PM. |
10-23-2002, 04:40 PM | #91 | |
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Why I believe in evolution? Because it makes a lot more sense to me than creationism. Evolution as well as creationism have been part of my life for a long time. I went to a very strict catholic school. But I watched documentaries about dinosaurs ever since I was 5 or so. Creationism just didn't make sense. It was too rigid, it seemed to me it could not accept that it was wrong on some parts. It took centuries and plenty of bloodshed before the Pope accepted that the world wasn't the center of the universe. Evolution gave me facts, tangeable things where as creationism gave me nothing of that kind. Evolution gave me dinosaurs and fossils. Creationism didn't even have room for them. So to me science proved more reliable. It can change, admit it was wrong when the opposite is proven. Also I found evolution to be more flexible. When something doesn't fit the evolutionary model it is not immediatly discarded as incorrect, something I found creationism does. Evolution constantly questions itself, it doesn't assume it has all the answers, which is I believe a healthy attitude. Our knowlegde of evolution to this day isn't perfect, new facts are discovered every day and scientific theories have to be adjusted to that. But at least they do so. Carbondating and other methods may not be as mathematically exact as we would like but that doesn't mean they're entirely wrong. Also I find it insufficient to turn to a religious explanation when something doesn't fit in the evolutionary model. Just because the afterlife doesn't get discussed in the evolutionary model doesn't mean that creationism is right.
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10-23-2002, 04:41 PM | #92 | |
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10-23-2002, 06:19 PM | #93 | |||
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Most people, yes, most Christians today subscribe to the fact that the Bible is written in a subjective literary prose where ambiguities, approximations and metaphors - such as the use of the word "day" here - are present to some degree. I think "day" was a flawed translation of some arbitrary Hebrew term for a given period of time, too, but I'm not certain about that one.
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10-23-2002, 06:30 PM | #94 | ||||
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IronParrot:
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I have already stated that I believe in evolution, to a point. I guess it would be more correct for me to say that I believe wholly in natural selection, survival of the fittest (though with technological advances humans have nearly completely omitted 'natural selection', making it now artificial). Emplynx: Quote:
No, the bible never sepciically says that life began from a single celled organism, but Jesus also never directly refers to Himself as the Son of God, but I believe it to be true. Quote:
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10-23-2002, 06:30 PM | #95 |
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You know what, Emplynx, that entirely depends upon your definition of 6 days. I mean, when Jesus came down to Earth in the New Testament, shortly before he rose back to heaven he said that he'd be coming back soon. Several centuries later I don't think of as 'soon,' by human standards, but it could well be by heavenly standards. I mean, come on! In heaven we're talking about eternity!
Earniel, I think it's a mistake to judge the Bible the way you are, just as it might be a mistake for some Christians to hold too rigidly to the interpretation they have held of it up till now. Creation and Evolution don't necessarily disagree. Sometimes God uses natural means to bring about divine ends, like when he used Assyria to punish the Israelites in the Old Testament. Notice that he didn't use an army of angels or demons. He may have used evolution to create life. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 10-23-2002 at 06:36 PM. |
10-23-2002, 06:31 PM | #96 |
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Wow, this is incredible, this thread is only 2 days old, and there's already 5 pages! It's clearly an engaging topic.
I agree with IronParrot and BoP in that evolution is a scientific theory and creation is a faith. Really I don't see how anyone can compare a scientific theory to a religious belief? Good scientists are evaluating their theories by carrying out repeatable experiments according to strict rules. Note that a scientific theory can never be proved, only made more or less plausible. It must be rejected at the first scientific observation that contradicts it, and possibly replaced by a new and refined theory. Whereas religious belief, or faith, comes from an inner, personal experience that cannot be evaluated, and by nature does not need to be made plausible, at least not in the scientific sense. If you believe in God then you naturally believe in creation, and vice versa, and any attempt to either prove or disprove (doesn't sound right, is it the right word?) it is folly. Answer to the original question: Yes, I think evolution should be taught in school, because it is the dominating scientific theory that seek to explain what humans are in biological terms. And I also think the main worldwide religions should be taught in school, as it broadens the mind and helps to understand societies everywhere better. The overall principles of evolution and the main foundations of the religions should be taught to everyone, but leave the heavier stuff to those who take special interest in it.
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10-23-2002, 06:38 PM | #97 | |
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10-23-2002, 06:40 PM | #98 | |
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IronParrot:
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10-23-2002, 06:44 PM | #99 |
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Well, Ironparrot, the experience I speak of is hearing God speak through his inspired Word. And that's not something I can very easily explain to a nonbeliever. It's a spiritual experience.
You know what, I think that argument between Creation and Evolution is pretty pointless. People thinking evolution is the only truth, when they try to use that against Christianity don't succeed, and neither do Christians who try to disprove evolution. There isn't any way of saying that God didn't do it, as it isn't in the Bible that he didn't. It's all a matter of personal belief. |
10-23-2002, 06:47 PM | #100 |
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I found something really cute while trying to find some info on EVOLUTION.
Evolution by Jame H Hunter Once I was a tadpole, grubbing in the mire, Till I became ambitious and started to aspire; I rubbed my tale so vigorously against a sunken log, It disappeared completely, and I became a frog! I struggled from my puddle and I jumped upon dry land, And the feeling that was in me was glorious and grand; It made me kind of frisky, so I hopped around a tree, Till I landed on the branches, just as happy as could be. And there I spent some aeons evoluting without fail, Till I became a monkey, and grew another tail! But still I had ambitions as the aeons wuickly sped, So I descened from the tree, and walked the earth instead. Till my tail got tired with trailing on thehard ground every day, And twice within my process that appendage passed away. Once again I evoluted, and, believe it if you can, I awoke one summer morning and I found myself a man! Now you tadpoles in the mire, just think what you may be, If you'll only in your puddles start to climb the family tree! I am the genus homo finished for all the world to see; For when I told my story, I was giv'n a Ph.D.
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