01-03-2008, 09:19 PM | #81 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
"Good heavens" said Pippin. "At breakfast?" Frodo is cranky. He's always cranky. Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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01-04-2008, 04:44 AM | #82 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Quote:
There is a reason for him to act more childishly. Frodo, on the other hand, is 50 - the oldest. He may not look 50, but he surely feels like it. He is no child anymore and no moron. |
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01-04-2008, 09:25 AM | #83 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
Frodo is two of those things. They aren't necessarily related. Bilbo was the same age, and he wasn't a drag.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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01-04-2008, 03:39 PM | #84 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Quote:
Hobbits in general are not much fun. Pippin seems livelier because he is young. Frodo, Merry, Ted, Lotho, Lobelia etc. etc are equally entertaining - or equally boring - Frodo didn't differ from the average initially. |
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01-04-2008, 05:02 PM | #85 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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That's kind of a stretch!
My point was that Saruman did not know Frodo, who was not a typical hobbit to begin with. I'm not saying that Frodo didn't change a bit, but compared to many other charaters, his change was quite small. Many others "lost their innocence", so to speak. I think Frodo did long before the books when he lost his parents.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
01-04-2008, 05:08 PM | #86 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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By the way, you have deviated from your original statement, sisterandcousinandaunt. The question is not whether Frodo is a bore (all hobbits are dull, IMO, and he is little different), but whether he is a static character:
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01-04-2008, 05:20 PM | #87 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
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Quote:
But real character changes started with the Quest and the terrible responsbility it has entailed. He was innocent enough at the beginning, but by the time of Weathertop he was another hobbit entirely. And after his Morgul wound, he got features of a wraith on one hand and a saint on the other. And then he was slowly acquiring features of a wannabe Ringlord ...and Gollum. At the Cracks he was hardly human at all. And after the quest he was broken, unable to cope without the Ring, unable to adapt to the Shire again. |
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01-04-2008, 05:33 PM | #88 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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Maybe. But I can't see how losing both your parents so young, in a society where death is probably quite rare at a younger age, could not effect you in a sobering way.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
01-04-2008, 07:24 PM | #89 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
Quote:
Sam, who starts as an innocent "Everyman" with a naive dream of seeing the elves, and actually encounters, and responds to, evil, has the most space for growth. Frodo is a task embodied, Sam makes choices.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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01-05-2008, 05:11 AM | #90 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
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Quote:
"Sobering" surprises me. All grown-up hobbits were sober enough, dull even. Look at the talk in the Dragon. But they had incredible mental stability: look at this nice dialogue of two hobbits who have just escaped a mortal danger. Pippin and Merry in Fangorn. Quote:
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And marrying? What does in have to do with "growing up" or "losing innocence" - unless you take innocence literally. Sam would have married Rosie anyway, if only her parents agreed to it. Quote:
Then I have a question - why are you loosing your time discussing such a bad book? |
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01-14-2008, 03:11 PM | #91 |
Enting
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nargothrond
Posts: 71
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Greetings
The only thing I really liked about the movies is the casting. They did a great job with that. I saw the movies before I read the books and when I read the books, I was very disappointed. Arwen taking Glorfindel's place when Frodo was injured? Most of all I didn't like the fact that Haldir was killed off when he wasn't even suppose to be at Helm's Deep.
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Lady Belwen of Nargothrond |
01-17-2008, 10:38 PM | #92 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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I strongly agree! It's for this reason that I so much dig the scene in the bar at the end when Sam finally summons up the courage to approach Rosie. True courage is conquering your deepest fears and Sam, corny as it sounds, greatly feared laying it on the line with his true love. But he did it!
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03-29-2008, 12:06 PM | #93 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In Rohan, with my true love Aragorn, if he hadn't married that wimpy elf Arwen... (sob)
Posts: 33
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I think that really it would be SOOO hard to get the movie just right but they still could have done a lot better!!!
Ranting points: - Nazgul pathetic. Unable to catch running hobbit even when on horse - Faramir = NASTY . What happened to the nicer version of boromir from the books?? He was ousted to be replaced by this EVIL person. Grrr. - Aragorn is crying out for a self-esteem course - Merry, Pippin and Gimli turned into idiots for comic relief. AND THAT'S JUST A START. PJ may have tried his hardest, it was necessary that they should cut things, etc, etc, etc, but IT COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER. Phew. Rant over. PS This is my first post - how was it? |
03-29-2008, 09:16 PM | #94 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Hello Eowynrocks. I can see you'll fit right in.
What really nipped my head is that they did all the hard bits really well (rendering these different species and cultures, and making it all look real) and messed up the easy bits (tell a decent story that made some sort of sense with believable characters). It was worth itthough, eh? The Shire, Ride of the Rohirrim, Sean Astin, Christopher Lee, er, .. um... that's it... |
03-30-2008, 03:45 PM | #95 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In Rohan, with my true love Aragorn, if he hadn't married that wimpy elf Arwen... (sob)
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Yeah, you're right, Gaffer. They paid so much attention to the fiddly special effects like the orcs and the balrog.etc,etc,etc and they seemed to forget that lotr is a really cool book series, not some sleazy hollywood affair! Also Frodo was turned into a really nasty chap and poor old Sam got a really rough deal looking after such a grumpy old codger. Aragorn was just a sword swinging idiot, Legolas was cool but with really odd mega straight hair, Gimli was comic relief, Gandalf had several nasty moments (like asking frodo to choose caradhras or moria, etc.) Need I go on?
Sorry, it's a bit long. But once I get ranting I can't stop
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Pippin: Anyways, you need people of intelligence on this sort of... mission... quest... thing. Merry: Well, that rules you out, Pip |
03-30-2008, 03:46 PM | #96 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
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I agree. A good script and a good plot will go a long way for me. The thing is, those are actually the difficult bits in movie-making. CGI technology is so advanced, that you can do a great job with it if you have the budget. You need actual talent to write a good script, and that's what was lacking for the LoTR movies.
I agree that the casting was excellent - that's not particularly easy either.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-30-2008, 03:53 PM | #97 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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Well, I liked the music...
When I saw the first movie, I loved it. It blew me away. But then I went out and read the books, and now the movies rather disgust me in their entirety. They're just so...not Tolkien. And all the stupid bits - like the Elves at Helm's Deep...the stupid warg attack...the horse-snogging scene...Gimli as comic relief...the fact that all Elves looked perpetually stoned... Nope, sorry. Not Tolkien to me.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
03-30-2008, 10:12 PM | #98 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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Saying the movies are not Tolkien is like saying the sun is not the moon. Now that we've settled that, why not enjoy the movies for what they are? That's my approach and, not surprisingly, it works for me without detracting an iota from my love of the books.
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03-30-2008, 10:26 PM | #99 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 987
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Quote:
The biggest crime to me is the destruction of many of the main characters. Frodo, Aragorn, Faramir, Gimli, Elrond, Merry, Pippin, and Denethor were particularly heinous. Sam, Eomer, and Gollum were ok. Legolas and Arwen...wha??? I can't even begin to address all the made-up scenes that took away from what the story was really about. Last edited by The Dread Pirate Roberts : 03-30-2008 at 10:29 PM. Reason: to be more polite... |
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03-30-2008, 10:27 PM | #100 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Cos the movies still suck despite being tolkien-derived? I dislike the movies because they're crap movies, not because they're crap tolkien-derivatives.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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