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04-16-2008, 12:52 PM | #81 |
Elven Maiden
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,309
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Thanks for the explanations, Curu and Aika. That puts my mind at ease a little. I would've just looked it up myself to verify but I didn't know where to look... Anyway, I don't think I ever really thought Maedhros/Fingon were anything but friends, but I still think they're totally cute together.
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04-16-2008, 01:13 PM | #82 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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I think they are too.
I play Maedhros on another board, and we play them...well...they're not exactly homosexual, but there is a deep love between them. Is it sexual? Well, we don't really comment on that, and they never act upon it, it's kind of for the reader to decide.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-16-2008, 06:03 PM | #83 |
Elven Maiden
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,309
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That's pretty much how it is in my mind. A deep love, of sorts, but whether it's sexual or not is their business and not mine.
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04-16-2008, 06:13 PM | #84 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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Exactly. That's how I feel about the characters. And a lot of the Elves in LotR - well, they didn't marry or have children in times of war. And Tolkien doesn't talk much about their children. We know Maglor, Curufin and Caranthir were married (Of Dwarves and Men, HoME XII), and that Celegorm was certainly heterosexual as he tried to force Lúthien into marriage. Maedhros and the twins were unmarried (ibid.). But Tolkien himself states that he just didn't tell their stories. Speaking of Celebrimbor: 'What then was his heritage? He must have been descended from one of Fëanor's sons, about whose progeny nothing has been told...' (ibid.).
I don't think it hurts anything if people want to assume that a character is gay. It certainly doesn't bother me any. It's the 21st century, and I'm as open as anyone else. In fact, I didn't vote for Clinton in 1996 because he opposed civil unions. But I do think that it is contrary to what Tolkien would have wished for his world.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-16-2008, 08:20 PM | #85 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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I would point out that the idea of homosexual persons did not even exist in the academic world of sexuality, and the word "homosexual" was not even around until 1907. Somehow, I doubt that the idea really filtered down to Tolkien in his world of Finnish epics, Old Norse, Anglo-Saxon, and 13th century monastic rules for anchoresses. Certainly, before people started thinking of people as gay, there were homosexual actions, and there were preferences one way or another, but sexuality was thought of as something much more fluid and much less boxed away than it tends to be. Sexual activity of men with men or women and of women with women or men was not something thought of as uncommon, nor as something which sets someone off as "different" from the rest of the world, the world GLBT does today. So, basically, I can conceive there being in Middle-earth a man who sexually loves a man, but the idea of "gay" characters produces major cognitive dissonance.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-16-2008, 08:58 PM | #86 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 987
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Exactly. Middle Earth was a world that didn't revolve around sex. Sexual activity wasn't something people used to identify themselves or differentiate themselves from others, and love could indeed be platonic. Were Sam and Frodo gay? No, but I would venture to say that Sam loved Frodo every bit as much as he loved Rosie. Love !=sex
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~The DPR "Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." |
04-22-2008, 11:59 AM | #87 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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And along the same vein, I would say that Maedhros loved Fingon, Finrod loved Andreth, etc. etc. Do I think there was any type of sexual relationship? No, certainly not. I think Gwaimir and DPR make very good points. Again, Middle-earth was not something out of a Mills and Boon novel - sexual relationships existed, yes, but they were not the defining characteristic of a character - nor should they be.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-23-2008, 02:18 AM | #88 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Quote:
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04-23-2008, 12:06 PM | #89 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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