|
FAQ | Members List | Calendar |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
09-03-2003, 12:33 PM | #81 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
Quote:
Because they didn't want to admit they had failed in the 1919 peace settlements. Because public opinion was against it, and all the countries you name were democracies (except Spain, who were Fascist themselves). Because they had been disarming through the 1930s, and didn't want to re-arm. Because they had just been through the Great Depression, and weren't ready to fight a war. Because they were more worried about Communism in Russia and thought it was a greater threat. Because they were weak, and blind, and they didn't see the threat. They thought they would stop Hitler if they gave him what he wanted. They were wrong, and we know that now. But I think their reasoning is understandable. I'd love to have seen Belgium stand up to Hitler alone
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
|
09-03-2003, 02:34 PM | #82 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere...
Posts: 15
|
If the U.S. practised Isolationism, we might get back from our service economy and be more dependent on ourselves instead of other nations for raw materiels like, oil. Also, we won't have to spend so much on military overseas spending, therefore increasing our ability to pay off the national debt and our social services. That's just the beginning.
|
09-03-2003, 04:00 PM | #83 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I have no idea.
Posts: 5,441
|
Quote:
|
|
09-03-2003, 08:35 PM | #84 |
Enting
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the land of the setting sun.
Posts: 58
|
Ok. I'm a newbie but you post a question it's going to be answered!
It could be argued that America has been practising isolationism throughout it's own short history. On the advent of WW1 it was made clear that this was an entirely European matter and one that didn't warrant assitance from the States. The 'Lusitania' changed that and brought America into the war. Hitler's invasion and absorbtion of other countries should not have been allowed to happen. Hindsight, of course, is a wonderful gift. However, the post above points out the historical reasoning as to why a 'lassiez-faire' attitude prevailed and that the UK itself practised a form of isolationism between the wars. Again, the States made it clear that they were not going to become involved in European affairs this in spite of the so-called special relationship that had grown up between the two countries. Thus, the UK became embroiled in a war for which it was ill prepared. The Americans were approached and practically begged to give assitance. When the UK was in it's 'darkest hours', still no help was forthcoming. History now shows us that trading was going on between Germany and the USA, money was going into Germany from German-Americans. The German war effort had a great deal of support from America. Of course, Pearl Harbour changed the American view and entered into the war. And it was truely awful. Subsequent to WW2, there has been ongoing conflicts around the globe. America has only become involved when their own interests have been involved, whether political or monetary. There has then been an expectation that other countries will then support America in it's fight because they are on the side of right! Don't be surprised if not all subscribe to that point of view. As for Iraq. No-body lifted a finger when Saddam gassed thousands of Kurds. It barely made the news. Now that natural reserves of oil are diminishing in the States then new markets are to be exploited. Hence this apparent interest in Iraq. I suspect, although it is my personal view, that Blair rues the day he agreed to become involved as this has served to isolate the UK from it's 'natural' neighbours and has brought severe condemnation from within his own country. It is also ironic that the UK is supporting the States given the spectacular lack of support we have received. Just as an aside, when America invaded Grenada it was British Sovereign Terriority. No-body thought to tell the UK government that this was the American plan. So, I am cynical about questions posted as above. You can't have it all ways. As a country America continues to appear uncertain about what it is that it wants to be on the world stage. It can't on the one hand tell everyone "it's your problem" but then start interfering when it suits. Hope to express my view on other pages. |
09-03-2003, 08:50 PM | #85 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 482
|
I don't believe it would. "No man is an island", no country could be either (not literal sense). But in a way, much of America does seem isolated. Of what goes on in the world, what little we encounter is through news which is unreliable... There is too much news.
__________________
"Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?" |
09-03-2003, 08:57 PM | #86 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Quote:
Just kidding. actually, you are very welcome here, but beware of the stick of wrath.
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
09-03-2003, 09:31 PM | #87 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||||||
09-03-2003, 09:34 PM | #88 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But you know what - the US told Europe to handle Bosnia that it was Europes problem. Europe couldn't even mobilize itself enough to do anything and asked us to lead. Look at israel and the palestinians - everyone looks at the US ot solve the problem there. First of all - we didn't even start the problem there - England and the UN did, second - why doesn't anyone else have the Israeli leaders and Palestinians over for discussions? Why does everyone point to the US? Why does everyone expect the US to meet with North Korea? Chirac wants to play world politics - why doesn't he sit down with the leaders of some of these countries? In closing - if people of Europe don't like what the US does - then tell your governments to start getting involved with these countries. Europe just wanted to do with Hussein with what they did with Hitler - appease him. It didn't work with Hitler - it wasn't going to work with Hussein. I thought Europe was smart enough to learn from it's mistakes. You also can't be soing the same thing over and overr again and expect a different result. How many times has the US hosted meetings between Israel and Palestinians? How many times have we tried diplomatically to solve some of the Middle East problems? it was time to take a firm stand in the Middle East. 9/11 made that PERFECTLY clear for America.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-03-2003 at 09:37 PM. |
||||||
09-03-2003, 10:03 PM | #89 |
Enting
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the land of the setting sun.
Posts: 58
|
'Tis clear that you and I are not going to agree on this. You're an American and I'm not. You have a point of view that I don't share. You will follow your political ideals and I will follow mine. The reality is that I'm not stating anything other then what are commonly held views on this side of the 'Pond'. No amount of rhetoric is going to change that.
One, almost snide, point that I will make is that the United Kingdom or the British Isles, whatever your preference, comprises four distinct countries. England is just one of those countries (I happen to be Scottish).That has been the situation for hundreds of years and is a historical fact. Doesn't bode well for any argument if this simple fact is ignored or is unknown. |
09-03-2003, 10:23 PM | #90 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
As for what I am stating - these are commonly held views here. 57% of Americans support Bush and 67% currently support his handling of Iraq. I know it's the same over there - but Bush doesn't have to worry about you voting for him. Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-03-2003 at 10:24 PM. |
||
09-04-2003, 02:37 PM | #91 |
Enting
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the land of the setting sun.
Posts: 58
|
I don't know why I'm doing this but..Scotland was/is the oldest crown in Europe. Scotland had a distinct monarchy when it's neighbours were still striven by feuding among the noblity. The Scots were a united country long before England became united.
Scotland then became the desire of England thus centuries of war between the countries ensued. The crowns became united on the accession of James VI and I. James, a Scottish King, ascended the English throne. It was a tradegy of epic proportions to all true Scots and signified centuries of quizzling lords willing to sell their souls for promises of English land. It is not sufficient to say that Scotland became a state of England. Scotland retained it's own legislature, has it's own banking system and prints it's own money, retained all things spiritual, it's own language and very distinct culture. There is also a long and rich history. The monarch not only ascends to the English throne but then goes to Scotland to be crowned. The Scots, in common with the other countries comprising the United Kingdom, were robbed off their heritage by their leaders lust for power and their greed for gold. The Scottish people were sold down the river by their leaders. Their tenacity in trying to hold on to their identity is admirable. Thus, to call everyone from the UK English Jersey Devil, is going to have the same affect as my reply to your post! I would be one who supports total separatism (sp), not what is currently on offer. But, from small acorns... I'm not going to post on this thread again for no other reason then I also believe in the old adage: he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day! See you around. |
09-04-2003, 02:41 PM | #92 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
The US has made it very clear since 1956 at least that nobody can take action in the Middle East without American approval- America has (rightly or wrongly ) planted itself directly in the middle of the situation. If you want to complain, go to talk to every American President since Eisenhower. BTW the "roadmap" was supposed to be the policy of the Quartet (U.S. , EU, UN and Russia- the Palestinians didn't trust the Americans and the Israelis didn't trust the other three) As for Korea, the North Koreans don't want to talk to Chirac or Blair or Koizumi or Hu or Roh because they don't think that any of those guys are threatening their country- and, rightly or wrongly, they think Bush is.
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
09-04-2003, 02:49 PM | #93 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
Oh, yeah, the Great Depression. Check out the history of the Smoot-Hawley Act
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
09-04-2003, 02:56 PM | #94 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
It's okay to support a harder line on Europe in March- but what happens when you come back asking them for help in September?
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
09-04-2003, 03:02 PM | #95 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The Englsh couldn't wipe out your language- but how often do you speak it? Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 09-04-2003 at 04:23 PM. |
||||||
09-04-2003, 03:06 PM | #96 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
09-04-2003, 03:19 PM | #97 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
I was pointing out to Athelwinde and Ruinel that protectionism is not a very good policy. The Depression started with the collapse of the stock market, became the "Great" Depression due to a contractionary policy- accompanied by protectionism in the major economies, causing a collapse in world trade.
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
09-04-2003, 10:00 PM | #98 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 482
|
Quote:
__________________
"Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?" |
|
09-05-2003, 07:40 AM | #99 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Quote:
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
09-05-2003, 12:18 PM | #100 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
Quote:
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
heat;h care in america | LuthienTinuviel | General Messages | 96 | 04-16-2007 02:02 PM |
What has America become? | arynetrek | General Messages | 152 | 05-19-2006 10:04 PM |
Why people love the United States of America | jerseydevil | General Messages | 74 | 03-31-2004 05:16 PM |
Pledge of Allegiance | IronParrot | General Messages | 47 | 03-08-2003 03:32 PM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |