08-28-2003, 06:43 PM | #81 | |||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
However, if you are getting into the personal life of someone revealing personal facts, without permission, than you have a classical case of conflicting freedoms: Freedom of speech vs right to privacy. Do not confuse the two. Because by upholding the first against the second you are not enjoying more freedom, but simply trading one freedom by another. Different cultures attribute different value to different kind of freedoms. Quote:
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
|||||
08-28-2003, 06:58 PM | #82 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-28-2003 at 07:00 PM. |
|||||
08-28-2003, 07:22 PM | #83 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
Ah, that game, I thought you were referring to books? Well then, it is probably just judicial mistake, made by some judge who was in a hurry to depart for his holidays. Sincerely, I doubt it will remain banned for long. That is why appeal courts exist anyway. Quote:
Instigating someone to commit a crime is a crime per se. At least around here. Quote:
Quote:
Furthermore the very concept of what freedom of speech is varies from place to place. “Your” right to delve into, say, the PM’s private life and tell what you find is not seen at the same level as exposing of, say, governmental corruption.
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
||||
08-28-2003, 07:26 PM | #84 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Quote:
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
|
08-28-2003, 07:40 PM | #85 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Afro-Elf - I am proud of America and I'm proud to be an American.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|||
08-28-2003, 08:20 PM | #86 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
Artº26 To all is guaranteed the right to personal identity, citizenship, civil capacity, to the good name and reputation, to the image, to the word and reserve of intimacy of the private and family life Quote:
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
||
08-28-2003, 08:42 PM | #87 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
However - if I find out something about someone - I can print it in the paper or do whatever I want with it. Does that article in your constitution protect you from the government or from the media or from your next door neighbor? What exactly does it protect you from? Our Constitution is there to limit the powers of the government and to protect the citizens from any abuses by the government. As you can see to - in Amendment X - most of the power is reserved to the states. The Federal government is very limited in it's power - most of all the laws originate in the states. So the laws of California are very different from the laws of New Jersey. Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-28-2003 at 09:00 PM. |
|||
08-28-2003, 09:59 PM | #88 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Quote:
And I respect your reasons because you are knowledgeable and can defend your reason articulately you are not a blind votary.
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
|
08-28-2003, 11:04 PM | #89 | |
Bank'ress of Sith
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In a hot-hot place, heh
Posts: 913
|
Re: America the Proud?
Quote:
Why shouldn't we be proud? Every nation has some sort of -negative- areas. That is what makes the future said areas positives.
__________________
my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think. |
|
08-28-2003, 11:56 PM | #90 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
i think the topic starter is proud to be american - he was just trying to make an interesting topic. i believe he is one of my cousins.
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
08-29-2003, 04:47 AM | #91 | |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 3,891
|
off-topic remark
Quote:
__________________
An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
|
08-29-2003, 05:50 AM | #92 | |
The Elvish Temptress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 3,055
|
Quote:
2) So in other words ... I said don't put something into my speech that I have never said. But okay, I can do so too: In other words, you think that National Socialists should be allowed? 3) The prime minister can't do everything. That's not true. For what reason do you think we have a parliament? 4) We have laws to prevent National Socialism and it is a fact that these right wing extremists go to countries where they can be right winged. That's not ingnorance, that's a fact. Yah, funny. I guess you had a good laugh. I didn't talk of France. And if I think of it. France was on your side, not ours. Hmmm. 5) It's not about disgusting ideas, books or anything. It's about preventing National Socialism. You don't get that, do you? 6) Am I getting political lessons now from YOU? ha. I know what communism is, I know about left and right winged parties. As for the system: Everybody gets what he/she needs. Should we only pay half of the hospital bill just because a worker was hurt? And when the boss of the company is hurt, he gets the whole bill payed. that would be unfair.
__________________
What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead. Last edited by Lalaith : 08-29-2003 at 06:08 AM. |
|
08-29-2003, 10:53 AM | #93 | ||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There was recently a documentary on the neo-nazi party in the US on tv this week. It included how after World War II - many of europe's nazi members came over here to set up camp. Their ideas are protected by the Constitution and no matter how much I may hate them - I would hate it more if we restricted them. I would rather fight them with enlightment - than with taking away their freedoms. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-29-2003 at 11:08 AM. |
||||||||
08-29-2003, 10:54 AM | #94 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Someone had sent me this as a forward...
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-29-2003 at 10:59 AM. |
|
08-29-2003, 11:24 AM | #95 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
I'm with jerseydevil on the free speech issue. Canada has "hate speech" laws, and I regard them as a pernicious influence.
There was a long-running battle fought in Canada over a neo-Nazi's right to deny that the Holocaust occured. Look at the Skokie, PA case. A racist anti-Semitic group wanted to march through a neighbourhood heavily populated by Jews; in spite of overwhelming public revulsion the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) fought and won their right to peacefully assemble. Now, I personally regard Holocaust-deniers and neo-Nazis as life-forms slightly lower than cockroaches on the evolutionary scale, but as Voltaire (another Frenchman heard from) said "however much I disagree with what you say, I'll defend to the death your right to say it." OTOH, there are other areas where the US has been somewhat less free- it was only last month that the Supreme Court finally struck down the ridiculous sodomy laws enacted by many states. As Pierre Trudeau (former Canadian PM) said back in 1967, "the State has no place in the bedrooms of the Nation"- glad to see the Yanks catching up,
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
08-29-2003, 11:30 AM | #96 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
Quote:
“The constitutional precepts pertaining the rights, liberties and guaranties (such as the Artº26) are directly applicable and bind public and private entities.” What you were stating in your answer seems to be related with the inviolability of one’s home and correspondence. The Artº34 assures that 1. Both home and the confidentiality of the mail and other means of private communication are inviolable. 2. The entrance in the home of a citizen against his will can only be ordered by the competent judicial authority, restricted to such cases and forms as established by the law. (Meaning that, in no case, they can go against any constitutional guarantee, right or liberty). 3. It is forbidden any form of intromission of the public authorities in the mail and telecommunications, except in the cases pertaining issues of criminal law, as stated in the law. Quote:
Furthermore you seem to ascribe the same importance to the right of revealing governmental corruption and, say, revealing that the PM is having an affair. Not so around here. One is an issue of the public domain, concerning all, the other is of the private domain, and concerns only those directly involved (unless if the PM made it a public affair himself). The example you gave is not relevant, because there are no conflicting rights in it. You have the right to state you hate the government, if you choose to say so.
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
|||
08-29-2003, 11:36 AM | #97 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
|
Quote:
__________________
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
|
08-29-2003, 11:37 AM | #98 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
As I said before - the federal government has very few laws - the majority of laws are determined individually by the states. NJ didn't have anti-sodomy laws. So you shoudn't say that the US caught up to Canada - because there were no laws under the US federal government talking about sodomy one way or the other. Now it has been deremined unconstitutional and all states had to eliminate all their anti-sodomy laws.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||
08-29-2003, 11:37 AM | #99 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lindon
Posts: 637
|
Quote:
__________________
**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
|
08-29-2003, 11:53 AM | #100 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
I have a right to people coming into my home and so forth. But if someone finds out about something - it can be made public. I know England has no problem revealing the private lives of people - maybe you do - but in England all you have ot do is see what happened witht he Diana tapes. Her privacy there wasn't protected and they even listened in on private phone calls. I am unsure if a person can do what happened to Princess Diana in your country though. Quote:
We look at the president as being our employee - not as the "supreme leader" of our country. The government works and answers to us. If they're private life gets in the way of there job - then it is the public's business.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
What has America become? | arynetrek | General Messages | 152 | 05-19-2006 10:04 PM |
To the Citizens of the United States of America | Falagar | General Messages | 117 | 04-22-2006 11:12 AM |
Why people love the United States of America | jerseydevil | General Messages | 74 | 03-31-2004 05:16 PM |
Pledge of Allegiance | IronParrot | General Messages | 47 | 03-08-2003 03:32 PM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |