Eol

[Mirahzi]

I certainly believe Eol did love her. First of all, he married her. In those times, marriage without mutual love was unheard of. And, as I said before, she gave him a son, whom he loved and taught. The act of sex implied mutual consent, since rape was also unheard of. If both did not love each other, why else would they both agree?

..but as I recall he didn't seem to be all that remorseful when she was hit by the javelin.

I don't think the book describes any of his emotions from that point on, except for his wrath against Maeglin.

[BeardofPants]

“Eöl found...the sister of King Turgon astray in the wild near his dwelling, and he took her to wife by force: a very wicked deed in the eyes of the Eldar.” (Quendi and Eldar essay, footnote 9, War of the Jewels, HME)

Looks like Tolkien originally wanted to paint Eol as an evil bastard, but then watered his character down.

[Khamûl]

Now that I reread the story, Eol is worse than I thought. I forgot about the part that when he first saw Aredhel, he enchanted the woods so that she couldn't find her way out. But, she wasn't unhappy with him.

It is not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling, nor that her life in Nan Elmoth was hateful to her for many years.

I think that they would have been happy together had Maeglin not been born and had he not made her want to go back to Gondolin.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Khamûl
I think that they would have been happy together had Maeglin not been born and had he not made her want to go back to Gondolin.

But only because he practically brainwashed her...she would have eventually wanted to go back to Gondolin, I am sure. Maeglin merely helped this along. I think.

Thanks for finding that quote, BoP. I was going to say, I think at this point the discussion would turn to the intentions of the author, rather the character of Eol. What did Tolkien intend? Evidently, he originally planned to have Eol as an evil bastard, but changed it somewhere...or did he change it all that much? Why am I attempting to confuse myself?

[Mirahzi]

Yet it is said that Maeglin loved his mother better, and if Eol were abroad he would sit long beside her and listen to all that she could tell him of her kin and their deeds in Eldamar, and of the might and valour of the princes of the House of Fingolfin. All these things he laid to heart, but most of all that which he heard of Turgon, and that he had no heir; for Elenwe his wife perished in the crossing of the Helcaraxe, and his daughter Idril Celebrindal was his only child.
In the telling of these tales there was awakened in Aredhel a desire to see her own kin again, and she marvelled that she had grown weary of the light of Gondolin, and the fountains in the sun, and the green sward of Tumladen under the windy skies of spring; moreover she was often alone in the shadows when both her son and her husband were away.

Aredhel's homesickness was awakened by the telling of stories of the Noldor to her son, as opposed to being strengthened or reinforced. This implies that, had she not been asked by Maeglin to remember, her memories of Gondolin would eventually fade and she would be content in Nan Elmoth.

I don't think the character of Eol from Histories is really relevant here, because, frankly, the source is quite unreliable. Whatever Tolkien intended when he created the aforementioned character is also irrelevant, since he could've and most likely did change his mind before or during the development of Eol from the Silmarillion. Unless there's proof that both characters are one and the same, they should be recognized as individuals.

[BeardofPants]

Well I posted it, because I thought it was interesting to see how his character evolved from that of a blackguard, to one of lesser evil. My point was that the Silmarillion version hardly stands up to the label of evil in comparison to the one Tolkien originally worked with.

[Mirahzi]

I know, and I agree that it is a valuable insight. My last paragraph was more in response to EG's post, not to question the reasoning behind yours.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Keep in mind that Tolkien did not publish The Silmarillion himself. And I think the character of Eol in histories is significant here; the Eol we see in The Silmarillion is based on the one in the Histories, so I would not give Sil. Eol individual status, just slightly different. And mind you, it did not change that much. He still ensnared her and would have married her, whether she was willing or no.

And I doubt Aredhel would have forgotten her home and been satisfied forever, away from the light of the sun, and her kin.

[Mirahzi]

I realize that Eol (S) is based on the Eol from the Histories, but that still doesn't mean they're the same person. The Histories was a rough sketch of characters and stories who were later refined or changed to become the ones we are familiar with from LotR and the Silmarillion. For example, Melko and Melkor are very different individuals.

He still ensnared her and would have married her, whether she was willing or no.

I don't think its reasonable to assume that, since all we know is that she was willing. To say that he would've forcefully married her if she wasn't is like trying to predict the future. With what we know, that's impossible.

Again, I disagree. Aredhel and Eol were very alike in the sense that they both craved freedom. Also, before the birth of Maeglin, neither had any desire to go back to Gondolin or Doriath, respectively (according to the texts). Without the desire to return home, Perhaps Aredhel would eventually become like Eol.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

It is not until after Eol's actions are described that it says anything about Aredhel not being wholly unwilling (and putting it like that, it doesn't sound like she was particuarly happy either, just not to upset...). What one can assume from the way it is written is that she had little in the way of choice, but she ended up not minding. See, it says (and I don't have the book with me again. arr.) first that Eol ensnared her and brought her to his home, and married her. It says nothing on how she felt about this until the next paragraph. Read it again; I think it implies he would have done so anyway.

Also, I don't think it would be in Aredhel's nature to become completely satisfied with her dark life with Eol, away from the sun and her kin. I think the seeds of discontent were there (and I'll read it again as soon as I find my book so I can be sure) and Maeglin only helped by listening to stories. But I need the book...argh.

[BeardofPants]

Well, all that says, is that Eol was NOT a nice person, and that he had an agenda. It doesn't say that he was an evil [Edited]. Just a twit.

[Ñólendil]

Dude, you can't say that on Entmoot. It's not in the filter, but I know you can't say that.

[BeardofPants]

What? People have said that before...

Fine, I'll edit.

[Khadrane]

I seriously do not like Eol, or Maeglin for that matter.

[Khamûl]

Care to elaborate?

[Khamûl]

It seems that Eol is worse than I thought. I thought that maybe he was just lonely. I guess that theory should have gone out the window when he killed his wife, huh? Anyway, I stumbled upon a piece of information that I found that says for a fact that he had a dark heart. But then again, I guess we knew that anyway. Just for the heck of it, here is goes. When Beleg is choosing a blade from the armory of Thingol, he chooses Anglachel, which was forged from a fallen star by Eol. Melian says, "There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it." Just my quick two cents.

[Mirahzi]

A dark heart doesn't necessarily mean evil. For example, Turin certainly had a dark heart, but he still wasn't evil.

Also, just to nitpick, the death of his wife was not intentional. He was aiming at his son.

[Khamûl]

So he didn't intentionally kill his wife. He was aiming for his son, which is just as bad to me. I bet he didn't really care that he had killed his wife because she had led Maeglin out of Nan Elmoth and gone against his wishes to never leave their home. Anyway, the word 'malice' there signals to me that he was bad.

[Sister Golden Hair]

He was bad. Does that indicate evil? I think disturbed is a better word.

[BeardofPants]

We already knew that he wasn't exactly angelic. Just because he had a dark heart, does not, an evil dude, make.