08-29-2004, 05:39 PM | #81 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
Well lets take orcs. Orcs you could say are a branch of elves. They were twisted adn changed. They are just twisted evil branches off of elves. But you would never call an orc an elf. When orcs were first made you might call them elves because they werte just made but now after so many many many years they are different because of time and the slow changes they have. Orcs are a different race of elves the same way hobbits used to be short hairy footed men but now after thoudans of years they are a new species.
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-29-2004, 05:59 PM | #82 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Actually, Haradrim, orks were twisted from Men, and can be considered to be of the race of Men as well.....
It's no good; Tolkien says Hobbits are Men, there's no getting around it. Yer can argue 'til yer frickin' blue, BUT, the fact of the matter is:
Again: Haradrim, pay attention: "Abnormally for humans...." Ergo, hobbits ARE human. Tolkien says as much. Why can't it get through your undersized cranium? There's no blurring of the lines - it's that frickin' simple. Bloody 'ell. *BoP ducks and covers as the ensuing debate roars over her head*
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
08-29-2004, 06:26 PM | #83 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
Im just going to bow out because I will never change and neither will you so I say we shake hands and I will bow out. No hard feelings?
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-29-2004, 06:28 PM | #84 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Believe what you want, I don't care. I'm just going with what Tolkien said. ::shrug::
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
08-29-2004, 06:30 PM | #85 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
i know but i interpret it differently thats all.
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-29-2004, 06:34 PM | #86 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
You know, Haradim, you would get more respect if you were able to actually quote things that support your ideas instead of just boldly asserting some impossible, unsupportable thesis. If a certain learned Tolkienist of my acquaintance sees this, he would probably say something like, maybe in some other books, but not in the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien. We are not writing fanfic, here, we are trying to understand Tolkien's world better.
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
08-29-2004, 06:56 PM | #87 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 856
|
Are the sheltered Gentlemen here unfamiler with trolls or subcategories thereof, such as:
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame78.html
__________________
Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
08-29-2004, 07:54 PM | #88 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
I actually dont know how to quote and I am truly sorry if people are getting mad at me because that is the complerte opposite of my intent. I dont mean to upset anyone. I am sorry.
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-29-2004, 08:38 PM | #89 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
Quote:
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
|
08-29-2004, 11:33 PM | #90 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
well thanks but how do you quote things?
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-30-2004, 02:29 AM | #91 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Well here's a hint: use the quote button found at the bottom of everyone's posts.
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
08-30-2004, 02:30 AM | #92 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|
08-30-2004, 02:37 AM | #93 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Just like BoP just did!
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-30-2004, 02:58 AM | #94 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
Im just stone deaf then. Io dont pay attention and I just go my own way. Oh yeah and I am stubborn too.
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-30-2004, 06:16 AM | #95 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: In the kitchen ...... still!
Posts: 228
|
So, just to tidy things up a bit and return to the original topic - Bill Ferny was a Man - in the tall, shoe-wearing sense of the word!!
I know what you are trying to say, Haradrim. It can get a little confusing, especially in The Lord of the Rings. In this book Tolkien never refers to Hobbits as men, despite the prologue and and other references outside LOTR. When he refers to someone as a Man in LOTR - he means someone with a configuration similar to modern day man and not a Hobbit!!! I am sure he does this to avoid confusion and to distinguish between the various branches of mankind!!
__________________
Life's too short to eat bad chocolate |
08-30-2004, 06:19 AM | #96 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
yeah I know. But do origins neccessarily mean same species. Thats my question. I am not disputing and never did that Hobbits were humans. But at what ppoint do you actually call them different species. I would call it now and others here would call it later.
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
08-30-2004, 07:07 AM | #97 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Bur for all BoP said I would say now but after relentless pressure I've got to agree with her.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-30-2004, 09:28 AM | #98 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
|
Quote:
__________________
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
|
08-30-2004, 01:55 PM | #99 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Lonely Mountain
Posts: 161
|
I always thought Bill Ferny was a Man, but now that it's asked, I'm not sure why I thought so. Eärniel gives some good evidence, though.
__________________
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs |
09-01-2004, 07:42 PM | #100 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
|
I know I agree that Hobbits were men along time ago. They were one and the same. Cousins in fact but according to a prophecy if it were to say no man will kill the witchking then I would take it to meaning no human or male will kill the witchking. Also could someone clear up whether it was no man will or no man could cuz I think that is very important. I would but my books have gone missing right after my brother left for college. hmmmmm.....
__________________
A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Hobbit and the deeper mythology | azalea | The Hobbit (book) | 22 | 10-22-2009 10:01 PM |
One Hungry Hobbit | Yodaman | Writer's Workshop | 2 | 10-14-2004 01:32 PM |
Declaration Of The Rights Of The Hobbit | The Lady of Ithilien | Lord of the Rings Books | 13 | 12-21-2002 02:45 PM |
I made a song!!!!! | StrawberryIcecream | Lord of the Rings Books | 999 | 08-11-2002 01:58 AM |
Is Gollum a hobbit or a weird frog thing??? | Samwise_Gamgee | Lord of the Rings Books | 21 | 04-11-2002 01:10 AM |