03-10-2003, 02:28 AM | #81 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Funny joke, Gwaimir, and sadly all too true for some churches...
I just read thru the thread and I'll throw in my 2 cents here on a couple of issues - Re the Bible version - The NIV (New International Version) is pretty much the standard in the non-denominational Christian churches that I've been to. Since language changes as time goes by, it made sense to update the translations. (Even Tolkien's imaginary languages like Sindarin and Quenya evolved, which is part of what makes them feel so authentic. As you read more of the History of Middle Earth stuff, you'll be amazed at the language details and things like 'the p sound shifted to a dh in the Sindarin language, while changing to a tp in Quenya") (made-up example, but there's lots of stuff like that.) To the best of my knowledge, all Protestent churches do Communion, but how often they do it varies. I imagine some uber-liberal (as TC said ) churches may have dropped it, though. Our church has been having it available at every service starting about 6 months ago - the idea is to come a little early to prepare your heart for worship and teaching, so we just go up and get the little bread wafer and the little cup of juice by ourselves, then sit quietly in our seats and pray and take it when we feel ready. I like doing it that way. We also have some 'official' communions, too, where we pass the bread and cup thru the aisles and take it all together. Can't you take any language courses, Gwaimir? I would think you'd like to, if you're living somewhere for awhile.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-10-2003, 02:31 AM | #82 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I heard something last week that I'd like to know more about from anyone that knows Judaism - someone said that the animal sacrifices for sin can't be done because there's no temple, so now study of the Torah is considered to be the substitute for the animal sacrifices. Can anyone comment on that?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-10-2003, 02:39 AM | #83 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Language courses?
O, do you mean this? Quote:
Well, I do speak some Russian and Portuguese, but to get to the point of mastery where I could really understand the sermons...No, sadly I've never gotten there. And it isn't the same with a translator whispering in your ear, where you can't hear about 1/3-1/2 of what they say.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-10-2003, 02:50 AM | #84 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Frodosgirlfriend, Gwaimer Windgem (can I cal you GW?) pretty much covered most of your questions, but not the last one. A lot of times when you go to Christian rock concerts and things, the band will say that "if you feel you have not been saved..." and such. Even if the place is a church or a church sponsored event, this does NOT mean that everyone is saved. Going to church, and even belief in God doesn't mean that one is saved. Several people (including myself) have thought they were saved once, but really weren't. When bands say things like that, is gives you teh oppurtunity to look over your life and decide if you really are saved.
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03-10-2003, 02:53 AM | #85 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Lots of other people call me GW, and I have no objection to it, so certainly.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-10-2003, 03:00 AM | #86 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Coney, I have a question, but I'm a bit hesitant to ask it. I don't know if it would be considered offensive or too private, so if it is, then just let me know. Do you have any preferences to any specific gods/goddesses?
P.S. As long as we are talking about pagans, I would say that I am inclined to agree with IR, that I would think that the 'true' pagans would be people with an unbroken line from the old days of the religion.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-10-2003, 03:06 AM | #87 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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In the Greek Catholic Church the mass is chanted.
A friend of mine from Indiana had never been to a fulfledged funeral mass before. He really was surprised by my mother's wake - with the priest chanting the eulogy, which takes about an hour - standing the entire time. Then the funeral mass before the burial was a full mass - all chanted. Funerals seemed to be less of a formal thing in the midwest - at least where I lived in Indiana. I used to tell people when I was younger that I was Roman/Greek Catholic because we used to mix the two religions. I was baptised Greek Catholic, but recieved First Holy Communion in the Roman Catholic Church. When I was in kindergarten and 1st grade we used to go to Greak Catholic Churches, but then later we always went to Roman Catholic. I never really encountered the "My religion is right, yours is wrong" attitude until we moved to Indiana. I was surprised at how the Christian religions argue with each other and basically put each other down. I'd be rich if I was paid everytime I heard that Catholics are a bunch of alcoholics or any number of deragatory things. And the attitude wasn't just directed at Catholics, the Baptists put down the other religions, the Lutherans did, the Pentecostals did, the Catholics ridiculed the Lutherans. My sister's wedding, in Tennessee, the "pastor" made a snide comment about Catholics. I guess he didn't realise that my sister and my whole family is Catholic. My friend Kim was insulted by his comment - I guess I had just gotten used to those kind of comments. My father and my uncle's family weren't too happy by his comment either during the wedding.
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03-10-2003, 03:11 AM | #88 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
This is a Greek Roman Catholic Mass - although it's in Arabic I think - but it's the same exact chanting as the English. - * Greek Catholic Mass (Side 1), Mass * Greek Catholic Mass (Side 2), Mass
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-10-2003 at 03:47 AM. |
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03-10-2003, 03:57 AM | #89 | |
Corruptor
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Quote:
Coney - I have a few questions re the Paganism, hope you wouldn't mind enlightening me? 1 How do you know which of the dieties deserve to be worshipped? (I was a bit confused by that statement) 2 Do these dieties have names such as the case with Hinduism, Bhuddism etc? 3 Do the Pagans worship the actual objects such as rocks or are these merely symbols of the diety that they believe in? (a representation of the living spirit or whatever being worshipped). If not how does a rock posess power to do anything for you? Or is the rock a symbol of something else like the strength of the earth or something? I find it very interesting to hear of these things as I have hardly any experience of it and I enjoy learning new things. Also a question to the Catholics: 1 Christianity teaches that the only way to be absolved from sin is if you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour and live according to His teachings - why then is the ritual of confession so important in the Roman Catholic dogma? If I understand it correctly you confess your sins to a priest who in turn gives absolution? A question re Judaism: 1 Jesus Christ is not accepted as the saviour, but as a false messiah and as I understand it Jewish people are still awaiting the first coming of the Messiah. What I do not understand is how this Messiah will be recognised & after his coming will Judaism as we know it cease to exist? Gwaimer - thanks for starting this thread, I have actually taken the time to read the whole thing from start to it's current point & I must say I find (almost) everyone's posts informative & interesting. Legolsalvr - I do not see how people wanting to find out more about Catholicism is offensive, no-one has said anything derogatory about it.
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03-10-2003, 04:33 AM | #90 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
Quote:
Greek Orthodox is very similar to Greek Catholic. Even though you asked in regards to Roman Catholics - the sacrement is pretty much the same. The chanting doesn't occur in Roman Catholicism. In 8th grade at my Catholic school - we were told that we didn't really have to go to confession because God knew if we were truly sorry anyway.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-10-2003 at 04:44 AM. |
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03-10-2003, 11:04 AM | #91 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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Quote:
Confession is imortant to us Catholics because sin wounds not only us but other people. In confessing what you have done to another, you acknowledge this. |
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03-10-2003, 11:06 AM | #92 |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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Does anybody here belong to an Eastern Catholic Church? I have alwasy been interested in the rituals of the Eastern Catholics. Since I'm Roman Catholic ( a Western Catholic Rite) I've always wondered what some of the differences are. If anyone could help that would be great!
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03-10-2003, 11:07 AM | #93 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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What is the reference for that verse, if you don't mind?
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-10-2003, 11:16 AM | #94 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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Quote:
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03-10-2003, 12:20 PM | #95 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Thanks.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-10-2003, 12:45 PM | #96 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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Jesus is not really seen as a false messiah-unlike the real false messiahs he never convinced large chunks of world Jewry to believe that he was going to create a free Jewish state that would not be oppressed (the only really agreed upon characreristic of a Jewish messiah). There are lots of legends and discussion about Jewish eschatology-Elijah the prophet heralding the Messiah, a Messiah called "Moshiach ben Joseph" (think Ephraim and Menasseh-it's not some sort of Christian thing) who dies, and another Messiah "Moshiach ben David" arising and finishing stuff off-either way it would be 2 men, they (or he depending on who you ask) are not divine. What's important to realize is that Judaism is not so focused on messianism-it is assumed that in the messianic era the Torah would still apply, things would generally carry on as per usual, there'd be no great spiritual change.
If the temple was rebuilt most orthodox Jews would say animal sacrifices would be re-established. Generally prayer services are seen as replacing sacrifices (the times of the Jewish prayers services correspond to various sacrifices). Torah study is required alongside sacrifices, not instead of it. In fact in prayer services Jews (well religious ones anyways) there are prayers that explicitly call for a return to sacrifices, and the verses that lay out the laws for sacrifices are incorporated into the service. As for learning another language for praying-to understand a Jewish service you pretty much need some grasp of Hebrew. Actually that's why Jewish literacy rates were once much higher then the general population-if you can't read you can't study and really join in services, so you must learn to read.
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03-10-2003, 01:37 PM | #97 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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JD - I've been to a Greek Orthodox wedding, and I liked the part where they put the little crown things tied together with a ribbon on the bride and groom.
Sorry you've heard such mean comments about Catholics I've heard some chanting from the Armenian church liturgy (?) and it's really nice. I still remember some of the lines (in Armenian!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-10-2003, 02:22 PM | #98 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Wouldn't all people who call themselves Pagan actually be Neo-Pagan?
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03-10-2003, 02:35 PM | #99 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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03-10-2003, 02:57 PM | #100 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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So how do pagans pick which gods to pray to? I have heard that many pagan religions hold up a high god of sorts-does that hold. Or is it more of a pantheist type thing, like Shintoism?
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