03-09-2006, 02:43 PM | #81 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
*also likes reading diddykins comments
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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03-09-2006, 04:14 PM | #82 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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Quote:
This is because many of those "absolute" moral values have conflicting results when they are practically applied. Since this is still a side issue, I will just say that you can engage in relativism even while adhering to an absolute moral standard. It is a question of APPLICATION vs IDEALS.. Quote:
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If it was the middle ages, and it was a noble in your seat, would that make it right? It certainly would as far as a peasant was concerned. But it wouldn't make it right as regards our current society. And yet under the fuedal sustem, it was considered that "the right of kings" and nobility was an absolute. Upheld by the church and codified by law. What happened to that "absolute"? Again this is a side issue. Though you can of course start applying how our current society is "better" than a fuedal system and then carry it to the question below... Quote:
Instead I'll just point out what you said earlier: "By your rationale, no humans fail just the system. That is not the witness of multiple individuals in multiple systems who say that the fault lies within themselves (cf. Buddha, Ghandi, Paul, etc). What say you about that?" If that was so, then why is it that those individuals wound up creating new systems and societies? Instead of just demanding that individuals adhere more closely to the strictures of the old system? It has nothing to do with whether or not the new systems being created are BETTER or WORSE, it has to do with the idea that they implemented a CHANGE in response to percieved flaws in the old systems. Wheras you stated that it was due to the fact that they percieved flaws within themselves. If the flaws that concerned them the most were with themselves, then why did they need to invent new systems? Or PERHAPS, they looked at the flaws they percieved within themsleves an endimic to the OLD systems.. Quote:
your quote: "Which came first humans or systems? Individuals or societies? By your rationale, no humans fail just the system." Humans do not exist outside of society. Not as human animals. Stating that the failure of humans to engage in moral behavior is something inherant in the human animal or a particular individual completely ignores the fact that there is no such thing as a human in isolation from society. Any failure of a human to integrate into a society is primarily the failure of the society. Now of course you can go on and on and cite reams of reports on genetic traits influencing aggressive behaviors and other types of behaviors. But that still doesn't place the blame on the individual. If anything it places some of the ability for those individuals to control their behavior outside their reach. Again, how can you hold someone responsible for something they have no control over? If it was a society that was truly enlightened, and I have as little an idea about what that would be like as anyone else, those individuals would have a positive place that suited their abilities and individual tempraments. Ahh a main issue at last: Quote:
In other words, I feel quite comfortable addressing the implications of the effects of the existence or non-existence of original sin on Dante's Hell in a thread about Dante's Inferno. But the existence of Sin itself? What would be the point? You can easily predict the outcome of such a discussion, and therefore it is of no interest. So no, I don't think I will take it to another thread, since it relates quite well to the original topic.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 03-09-2006 at 04:19 PM. |
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03-09-2006, 04:21 PM | #83 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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03-09-2006, 04:23 PM | #84 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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REMEMBER THE MOOT RULES-NEVER ATTACK THE POSTER
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
03-09-2006, 04:54 PM | #85 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Perhaps it would help if you were to be a tad more specific? Or did I somehow miss a post?
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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03-09-2006, 07:43 PM | #86 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
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Hi Blackheart....What's up?
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
03-09-2006, 08:02 PM | #87 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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wow, Lizra! How's the garden and the painting?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-09-2006, 08:30 PM | #88 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
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Good...everything's good. See my site for painting vibe. Still talking Tolkien? I think I said it all.....more or less.
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
03-09-2006, 11:21 PM | #89 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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*goes to site*
ooh, I remember the one on the lower left - I like it! What's it called? You should get a computer person to have the title come up when you move the cursor over your works - that would be cool! I'm not talking Tolkien as much - I was really into one of the rpgs for awhile (my first experience at them) but there were too many tempers and it blew up
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-10-2006, 04:01 AM | #90 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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Quote:
Yeah, that's the least of my worries right now, mister hoochie coochie coo blackie wackie ickle-kins.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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03-10-2006, 09:13 AM | #91 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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03-10-2006, 09:19 AM | #92 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
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Quote:
Quote:
By the way that's not how you pronounce my name...
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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03-10-2006, 04:21 PM | #93 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Rian, go to the the page labeled "Figments". All the non-objective abstracts are there...with titles. I believe you are referring to the black one, titled "Encouragement". Thank you.
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
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03-13-2006, 12:41 PM | #94 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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03-13-2006, 01:34 PM | #95 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
Yes, the titles are there - I like "Terra" a lot, too. Very nice!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-13-2006, 01:40 PM | #96 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
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Is this going to be a chat room now, or is this thread still for talking about Dante's Inferno? Just wondering.
Lizra, nice to see an old veteran return! So, did you take the test at the beginning of this thread? At which level are you in Dante's Inferno?
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
03-13-2006, 01:51 PM | #97 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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Oh my goodness!! It's Lizra and Boppy! Welcome back you guys!
I took the test, and then read the first couple pages of the thread. So Inked, did you take the test yet or what? Inquiring minds want to know! I'm in Level 1 - Limbo. I got a high Lustful score, but a low Heretic score. I just have to read Dante's Inferno (or is the title Divine Comedy?) now!! I consider myself a heretic sometimes!
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 03-13-2006 at 01:53 PM. |
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03-13-2006, 01:56 PM | #98 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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No, I don't think this is going to be a chat room now , but when a long-time Mooter like Lizra returns, I think some chat is fine. That decision is up to a mod, I guess.
Re the test - I think I would have scored higher in Lustful, but I lied on two of the questions because I didn't want to start being innundated with ads for "enhancement" and other such junk - we finally got rid of them and I don't want any more! I'm so sad I can't read Dante in the original language I"m sure it loses a lot in the translation
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-13-2006 at 01:57 PM. |
03-13-2006, 01:58 PM | #99 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
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I think there is both Divine Comedy AND Dante's Inferno; two different books. I could be wrong - someone correct me on this.
Good luck, I mean GOOD LUCK trying to get Inked to deign to take the Dante's Inferno test along with the rest of us mere mortals! Do you have any idea how long I've been trying to get him to take ANY of these tests that show others what kind of personality quirks or weaknesses we might have? He won't do it; he's the only one. I think he fears being thusly exposed here; right Inked? Scrred much? *tries to rouse Inked to the challenge* - take the test, Inked! What's so scary about it?
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
03-13-2006, 04:18 PM | #100 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
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The Inferno is the first part of the Divine Comedy, which also comprises the Purgatorio and the Paradiso.
R*an, I know what you mean about translations. I've been reading a book on translation which discusses how difficult it is just to translate the one line above the gates of hell (famously rendered as 'Abandon all hope, ye who enter here'). Translations can never really be the same as the original. I like Dorothy L Sayers' version, though - admired by Lewis, not to mention inked, IIRC
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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