04-18-2006, 09:24 PM | #81 |
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"The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life.... The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed.... It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them. "
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933 "The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc, because it recognized the Jews for what they were".... I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions. " -Adolf Hitler, 26 April 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] "We want honestly to earn the resurrection of our people through our industry, our perseverance, our will. We ask not of the Almighty 'Lord, make us free'!-- we want to be active, to work, to agree together as brothers, to strive in rivalry with one another to bring about the hour when we can come before Him and when we may ask of Him: 'Lord, Thou seest that we have transformed ourselves, the German people is not longer the people of dishonour, of shame, of war within itself, of faintheartedness and little faith: no, Lord, the German people has become strong again in spirit, strong in will, strong in endurance, strong to bear all sacrifices.' 'Lord, we will not let Thee go: bless now our fight for our freedom; the fight we wage for our German people and Fatherland.' " -Adolf Hitler, giving prayer in a speech on May Day 1933
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04-18-2006, 09:26 PM | #82 |
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"In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this: that, as in the past, so in the years to come He would give His blessing to our work and our action, to our judgement and our resolution, that He will safeguard us from all false pride and from all cowardly servility, that He may grant us to find the straight path which His Providence has ordained for the German people, and that He may ever give us the courage to do the right, never to falter, never to yield before any violence, before any danger.... I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty.... If Providence had not guided us I could often never have found these dizzy paths.... Thus it is that we National Socialists, too, have in the depths of our hearts our faith. We cannot do otherwise: no man can fashion world-history or the history of peoples unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence."
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Wurzburg on 27 June 1937 "National Socialism is not a cult-movement-- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a 'volkic' political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship.... We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else-- in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will-- not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord.... Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men. " -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept. 1938. "The National Socialist Movement has wrought this miracle. If Almighty God granted success to this work, then the Party was His instrument. " -Adolf Hitler, in his proclamation to the German People on 1 Jan. 1939 "Amongst the accusations which are directed against Germany in the so called democracies is the charge that the National Socialist State is hostile to religion. In answer to that charge I should like to make before the German people the following solemn declaration: 1. No one in Germany has in the past been persecuted because of his religious views (Einstellung), nor will anyone in the future be so persecuted.... The Churches are the greatest landed proprietors after the State... Further, the Church in the National Socialist State is in many ways favoured in regard to taxation, and for gifts, legacies, &c., it enjoys immunity from taxation. It is therefore, to put mildly-- effrontery when especially foreign politicians make bold to speak of hostility to religion in the Third Reich.... I would allow myself only one question: what contributions during the same period have France, England, or the United States made through the State from the public funds? 3. The National Socialist State has not closed a church, nor has it prevented the holding of a religious service, nor has it ever exercised any influence upon the form of a religious service. It has not exercised any pressure upon the doctrine nor on the profession of faith of any of the Confessions. In the National Socialist State anyone is free to seek his blessedness after his own fashion.... There are ten thousands and ten thousands of priests of all the Christian Confessions who perform their ecclesiastical duties just as well as or probably better than the political agitators without ever coming into conflict with the laws of the State.... This State has only once intervened in the internal regulation of the Churches, that is when I myself in 1933 endeavoured to unite the weak and divided Protestant Churches of the different States into one great and powerful Evangelical Church of the Reich. That attempt failed through the opposition of the bishops of some States; it was therefore abandoned. For it is in the last resort not our task to defend or even to strengthen the Evangelical Church through violence against its own representatives.... But on one point it is well that there should be no uncertainty: the German priest as servant of God we shall protect, the priest as political enemy of the German State we shall destroy. " -Adolf Hitler, a speech in the Reichstag on 30 Jan. 1939 "If positive Christianity means love of one's neighbour, i.e. the tending of the sick, the clothing of the poor, the feeding of the hungry, the giving of drink to those who are thirsty, then it is we who are the more positive Christians. For in these spheres the community of the people of National Socialist Germany has accomplished a prodigious work. " -Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the "Old Guard" at Munich on 24 Feb. 1939
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04-18-2006, 09:28 PM | #83 | |
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Osama Bin Laden has given up an enormous amount for his religion. It's clear that he believes what he's saying. Hitler is a totally different story. Whereas Bin Laden had much to lose by practicing his religious beliefs, Hitler had much to gain by claiming to be Christian. Hitler had massive public support to gain by making Christian statements, enormous political motive. He had wealth to gain through his policies. The two men were clearly very different. While Hitler's "Christianity" is easy to doubt, as he had clear motive to claim it, Bin Laden's fervor for his religion is absurd to doubt. I find it very bizarre that you find Hitler's speeches convincing, particularly in view of his treatment of Christians and attempt to change his state so that it worshipped him.
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04-18-2006, 09:34 PM | #84 | |||||||
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For fear that this post will go ignored, I will submit it again, here. Please pay special attention to the quotations at the end of this.
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Here's a quotation from the Holocaust Museum that should be heeded. I know I've already posted this twice, but I don't think I've heard anyone respond to it, except a little bit brownjenkins. Quote:
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The Holocaust Museum resources show that there was tension between Hitler and maintream German churches, and that the Nazi Party embraced clearly anti-Christian policies. This article's quotation from Wikipedia strongly indicates Hitler was not a Christian, and states that Christianity's being on the decline in Germany helped to strengthen the Nazis. Quote:
Here's an article that takes quotations from several history books and analyzes Hitler's "Christianity." It comes to the conclusion that he was not a Christian: http://www.geocities.com/mikem2u/hitler.html Here are some quotations the article cites from Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-18-2006 at 09:36 PM. |
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04-18-2006, 09:43 PM | #85 |
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Here is how the Nazis revised the Christian hymn Silent Night. You wouldn't guess it from this version, but originally Silent Night was all about the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ. Quotes below are from Wikipedia.
Silent night! Holy night! All is calm, and all is bright Only the Chancellor steadfast in fight Watches o’er Germany by day and by night Always caring for us. Silent night! Holy night! All is calm, and all is bright Adolf Hitler is Germany’s wealth Brings us greatness, favor and health Oh give us Germans all power! And here is an ode Hitler wrote to the pagan god Woden. "I often go on bitter nights To Woden's oak in the quiet glade With dark powers to weave a union - The moonlight showing me the runic spell And all who are full of impudence during the day Are made small by the magic formula! They draw shining steel - but instead of going into combat, They solidify into stalagmites. Thus the wrong ones separate from the genuine ones - I reach into a nest of words then give to the good and fair With my formula blessings and prosperity"
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-18-2006, 09:46 PM | #86 |
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Words of Hitler I posted above, but want to reemphasize:
"[Making peace with the church] won't stop me from stamping out Christianity in Germany, root and branch. One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." (J. S. Conway, The Nazi Persecution of the Churches, quoted in Lutzer, pp. 113-114.) "One cannot break the Church over one's knee. It has to be left to rot like a gangrenous limb...but the healthy youth belong to us." (Quote of Hitler in Lutzer, p. 130.)
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-18-2006, 09:47 PM | #87 |
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Did the rest of the world realise that people were being mass-exterminated?
To help Raddy & BoP and others here with proving the point that yes, most of Europe did know what was happening in the camps, and what the Final Solution was all about, I found this letter - here's part of it. Check it out!
" You state that everybody in the area had known about the existence of the camp and workers were recruited from the Polish population. It is true. Everybody had known about the camp. Not only local population, but also the whole Poland knew the truth about KL Auschwitz, as well as the Allies, Western World, World and European Jewish Congresses, International Red Cross and Vatican. Due to secret contacts between the Polish underground, Polish local population and prisoners, documents and reports on the SS crimes were collected, handed over to the Polish Resistance Movement and then sent to the West. These materials consisted of data on the mass murder of Jews and extermination of Poles, Roma and Sinti, the Soviet POWs and other national and ethnic groups. The Polish Government in Exile in London published documents, reports and organized press conferences on the crimes being committed in Auschwitz. Even in its diplomatic notes, the Polish Government in Exile informed the Allies and neutral countries about KL Auschwitz. The public was aware of what was happening at KL Auschwitz, for instance, from BBC broadcasts, newspapers and publications or press conferences of the Polish Government in Exile in London." Here's the whole link. http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim...big.php?id=973
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04-18-2006, 09:53 PM | #88 |
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The letter you cited is unclear on what time the information became so widespread. It mentions Russian POWs though. This indicates we're talking about a time during or after Hitler's invasion of Russia, a period that was late in the war, in 1943. Radagast already posted that much of the West knew at that time, and I'm not arguing that. However, Germany isn't likely to have believed the Allies.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-18-2006 at 10:00 PM. |
04-18-2006, 10:00 PM | #89 | ||||
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 04-18-2006 at 10:03 PM. |
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04-18-2006, 10:02 PM | #90 |
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They knew. Some even killed their jewish neighbors and took their property before the Nazis got to them.
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04-18-2006, 10:08 PM | #91 | |||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-18-2006 at 10:14 PM. |
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04-18-2006, 10:12 PM | #92 | |
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Anti-Catholicism histeria at its best (or thus...worst), Gwai.
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04-18-2006, 10:16 PM | #93 | |
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His "huge public support to gain" and his "motive" is in the realm of getting money and financial freedom from Western government & business, and going about it by getting as many people on his side and calling it a jihad, or whatever, and calling the West infidels & so on. Just like Christian Hitler called the Jews pigs, Muslim bin Laden calls the U.S. and the wealthy, Christianised nations of the West infidels, etc.
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 04-18-2006 at 10:17 PM. |
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04-18-2006, 10:22 PM | #94 | ||||
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Here it is AGAIN - I AGREE with you that Hitler claimed to be a Christian. I also agree that he used Christianity (although wrongly) in his rise to power and his reign. I still don't see where he used Christian tenets, though - can you provide any New Testament quotes that support any of his atrocities? Or maybe you just mean that he incorrectly used Christian tenets? Is that what you mean? Quote:
Yes, people use religion to justify evil things they do - people use ANY belief, including agnosticism or atheism, to justify evil things they do.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-18-2006 at 10:24 PM. |
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04-18-2006, 10:24 PM | #95 | |||
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Sorry. That's what everyone else I've been arguing with has been saying (and I agree with them on this point), so I made an incorrect assumption about your views. Sorry again! Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-18-2006, 10:39 PM | #96 | |
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no christian god, no muslim god, no assortment of Hindu gods, or whatever. It's not a "religion," Rian! 2. When was the last time you saw a major figure of world history, past or present, gain great evil power by convincing the masses that there is no god? Seriously, name one. To not believe that there is a god in a heaven is not an ideology, not a religion, and not a church. It's just a word used to describe some of us in the world who choose not to believe in any of the religious fables & myths. For instance, I have faith and beliefs, just not in a God or gods.
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04-19-2006, 12:39 AM | #97 | |||||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-19-2006 at 12:41 AM. |
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04-19-2006, 12:50 AM | #98 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-19-2006, 12:52 AM | #99 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I think discussing Lotesse's beliefs would probably fall in the "Why you believe what you believe" thread instead of the "Religious Knowledge" thread since she doesn't consider her beliefs to be religious.
Not that I do, either - but I DO consider them to be the same type of beliefs as mine - i.e., worldview beliefs.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 04-19-2006 at 12:53 AM. |
04-19-2006, 01:56 AM | #100 |
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An Excellent book which shed light on much of what everyone here is saying or rather why they are saying what they are saying, when quoting Herr Hitler is:
Language Of The Third Reich: Lti, Lingua Tertii Imperii : A Philologist's Notebook (Continuum Studies in the Third Reich) (Paperback) by Victor Klemperer, Martin Brady It is most enlightening if you're interested in liguistic tactics.
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