Was the Ring Evil?

[Haradrim]

Thanks SGH I will make that argument. Just because Sauron was there doesnt mean that the volcano was evil. I mean it is a natural occurence. Sauron took up residence in that area nd all of a suden its evil? I dont think so. Its just dirt, lava, and rock after all. And the spirit that tainted the gold probably didnt taint the gold but put a spirit embodying the gold into it. THen when Sauron created the ring another evil spirit embodied the ring. So it had two evil spirits embodying it. One for the gold and one for the ring.

[BeardofPants]

The land, and the volcano were evil as well.

[Tolkien's Letters no. 131]

But it (the ring) is not unmade, and the Dark Tower built with its aid still stands, empty but not destroyed. So ends the Second Age with the coming of the Numenorean realms and the passing of the last kingship of the High elves.

The Third Age is concerned mainly with the Ring. The Dark Lord is no longer on his throne, but his monsters are not wholly destroyed, and his dreadful servants, slaves of the Ring, endure as shadows among the shadows. Mordor is empty and the Dark Tower void, and a watch is kept upon the borders of the evil land.

Mordor = Black Land. (Old English = Morthor/Murder) In other words, a land of desolation and corruption; "...a land defiled, diseased beyond all healing." A land that had been tainted by the mark of both Morgoth, AND Sauron. (And Mordor WAS caused by the havoc that Morgoth wreaked upon middle-earth.)

[BeardofPants]

More excerpts from Letter no. 131:

But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'. Unless some other seized it and became possessed of it. ...There was another weakness: if the One Ring was actually unmade, annihilated, then its power would be dissolved, and Sauron's own being would be diminished to vanishing point, and he would be reduced to a shadow, a mere memory of malicious will.

...

Also so great was the Ring's power of lust, that anyone who used it became mastered by it; it was beyond the strength of any will (even his own) to injure it, cast it away, or neglect it. So he thought. It was in any case on his finger.

....

It ends with the overthrow of Sauron and the destruction of the second visible incarnation of evil. But at a cost, and with one disastrous mistake. Gilgalad and Elendil are slain in the act of slaying Sauron. Isildur, Elendil's son, cuts the ring from Sauron's hand, and his power departs, and his spirit flees into the shadows. But the evil begins to work. Isildur claims the Ring as his own, as ' the Weregild of his father', and refuses to cast it into the Fire nearby. ...

[Haradrim]

okay so the volcano and all of Mordor was evil. But that doesnt make the actual physical object of the ring evil. IT means that it was made in an evil place. Doesnt mean a thing.

[BeardofPants]

Does anyone else feel they're going 'round in circles?

Haradrim, we have established:

1. The gold was tainted by evil.
2. The land was tainted by evil.
3. The "spirit" of the ring was embodied of evil (the essence of Sauron).
4. The spells that wrought the ring were evil.

Etc, etc.

Now, we have provided FACTUAL proof of ALL of the above. Textual, documented proof. Enough of the naval gazing. Either you return in kind, and provide documented proof of your circular logic, or let it rest.

[Haradrim]

Oh I concede. I guess the ring was evil. Actually I just proved it to myself. SInce Sauron probably got the gold from Mordor and it has been proven that Mordor and its land is evil that means the gold is evil and therefore the ring. I never really meant it all that seriously. I always felt that the ring was evil I just wanted to see if there was any strand of logic that might say otherwise. Alas my wuest has met and end and it was an end in failure. Alas. I had fun. Hope everyone else did too. and if you didnt I didnt mean to take any fun away.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

At last because if the One wasn't evil then you can't really say that the three are good.

[Beren3000]

TD, I'm afraid you've made another opening for Haradrim; now this thread will turn into a discussion of whether the Three were good (j/k)

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Oh well, it keeps the thread going.

[Haradrim]

Now that you mention it.... Hehehehehe Were the three really good? I mean didnt Sauron help in their creation? (if I am wrong please tell me) If Sauron helped couldt he maybe have snuck a little bit of hsi evil and malice into them. And if Morgoth tainted all gold then there rings would have been tainted as well. So maybe the three were evil but their owners were able to control them. But they were still evil. HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! YES!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

No Sauron didn't help make them, Celembrior (sp.) made them alone as Sauron was not present. I dont think the others were made of gold just the One. For doesn't Gandalf say in A Shadow of teh Past. All rings had a specific gem but not the One the only signs of that was the fire writing.

[Haradrim]

okay but what about the dwarven rings. Wouldnt thos ebe evil cause he helped make those. So he snuck in a little of his evil.

[Attalus]

Yes, the Nine and the Seven (actually, they were virtually the same) were all evil. Not only did Sauron help in their making, when he took the House of the Mirdain and stole them, he corrupted them further and they were accursed. See "The Hunt for the Ring".

[Haradrim]

If the dwarven ones were evil why were they highly sought after by the dwarves? And why did thror give it to thrainand why didnt hrain immediately throw it away?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Because they were stronger tham Men and could resist the pull of the One.

[Attalus]

Besides, they were misled. They didn't think of their Rings as evil, but useful. The Rings of Power looked after themselves. Even Bilbo thought that the Ruling Ring was "very beautiful, and useful at need."

[Haradrim]

Yeah I now can see the light. So the only evil rings were the dwarven ones and the One ring, and the nine. The 3 were good though. Okay Im all set I wont come up with any ridiculous loops of logic anymore.... unless....

[BeardofPants]

*Takes Haradrim aside and gives him a swift kick in the pants just in case*

All of the other rings of power *were* intended to subvert their subjects. However, only the nine and the seven had Sauron's direct meddling, and the elves were stronger and fairer, and more enabled to fight against Sauron, in that they had the good sense to take off their rings when they felt Sauron take up the One Ring.

[edit]Sorry, meant the seven, NOT the three.

[Haradrim]

But he iddnt have any direct meddling with the three. He just meddled with the 7 and 9. ALso Galadriel didnt take off her ring when she flet Sauron according to someone else in this thread.

[Artanis]

Even if Annatar had not directly touched the Three, they were still made after his instructions. It was by his knowledge and help that Celebrimbor and the Eregion Elves were able to make such powerful Rings.

When the Elves became aware of the treason they immediately took their rings off. But I assume they thought it safe to make use of the Rings again after Isildur was killed and the One Ring was lost.